Zazada's werks ST/RSR proto 911 360 0001

[HughH]

Hi raj
I have been away out of touch in new Zealand. The photo you posted the other day of car AUI 1500 is RS 1501 not 1500 it was a multiple championship car. I did see the sister car 1501 for sale a little while ago

Also I would not be quick to assume that 1501 is "destroyed"

[t6dpilot]

Maybe it's just me but I really enjoy seeing these period photos of a couple of M471 cars with 6 & 7" wheels, period tires, and no side script.

Definitely not just you. They look great! Even at that ride height, though a little lower would look good too.

[peekaboo]

HughH


My fault,i was referring to the engine in the car being destroyed and not the car thanks for the vin id on the car-As i was tracing the engine history of the three engine that arrived with 0001 there are some RS's that are associated with these engines-these include RS-0521,1500,0016,Mike Gierowski's RS among others i have quite a few photos of these RS's as they were being raced in period.I am sorting thru all this info and cars.Most of these cars were involved in tarmac racing and some in hillclimbs.It is quite an arduous task to follow engines and cars being raced in period-some of these cars were associated with autofarm as were the engines.


license plates associated also include PMF 236 L , IIA 7700, GIA 7200, VVB 3M, YHR 911K, JYG 450N among others- i am expanding the search,and in the process of slowly eliminating inco0rrect info and confirming correct info.I have lots of photos which always helps.

raj

v123 ,

I will have to go look at notes to be more specific , but before I do. Here is some general info. on those licence plaques. To start :


VVB 3M was 1974 RS 3.0 / 460 9100 delivered to AFN and used by Nick Faure in 1974 in the 'Blue Circle Modified Sports Cars Championship' (i'm not sure what it was doing in 1975). In 1976 it went to Curley Cahal who used it at 1976 Manx Rally, 1976 Galway , 1976 Ulster Rally , 1976 Circuit of Ireland. He (& the car) was sponsored by / associated with The Checkered Flag (Graham Warner) in 1976 , his normal navigator was Austin Frazer. I have lost or misplaced my UK rallye results recently , so I do not have results for all 4 in 1976. But 1976 Manx / 2nd overall , 1976 Galway - DNF , 1976 Ulster - winner , 1976 Circuit of Ireland - ?..cannot remember.

In 1977 , 460 9100 was used by Dessie McCartney & licence plaques were changed to JIA 2 (for one, at : 1977 Galway Rally / 3rd overall).

I'll come back later possibly , and expand on what I know of the other plaque numbers you listed.

[Kuba.Huminski]

Dear Sirs!

It took me some time to read all the informations about the 911 360 0001. The car is supposed to be rebuilt Sobieslaw Zasada car from the Rally of Poland 1972. We have a huge discussion here in Poland about Zasada's cars and we found some weak spots in the story.

First thing- the car entered to all the rallies in 1972 and registered 77-07KW is entered as 911s, not as a ST of any kind. There is a historical photo with 2.4 badge clearly visible on the bonnet of 77-07KW from Rajd Dolnoslaski in 1972. In July Zasada crashes 77-07KW on the Salmopol Mountain Pass in the Rally of Poland. The car is supposed to be taken to Porsche and converted into the first RS prototype. But- Zasada wins Rally Semperit in late 1972 using 77-07KW, and also participates in 1973 Rally Costa Brava in a car with the same registeration.

Is it possible Zasada was given a brand new bodyshell from Porsche? Or there are any historical documents confirming 360 0001 is in fact Zasada's rebulit bodyshell?

[HughH]

there are historical documents showing that the original Zasada car a `1972 911S with the vin number 911 230 0769 and production number 1023900 and internal factory designation of E40 (all of the cars for internal use also had a special factory code with the E signifying an E series car (1972MY) and presumably the 40 standing for the 40th internal test or press or competition car in that model year) is also (and since December 1972) known as 911 360 0001

In addition the internal production number 1023900 is still stamped on the correct part of the dash and also still written in crayon on the top of the dash of the car now bearing the 9113600001 vin.
A copy of some of this is shown below:




You mention that the car wearing number plates 77-07 KW is shown as an S not an ST in records - that is totally correct. The term "ST" is a recent invention (late 80' / early 90's) used to describe the "sports purpose" or competition specified cars of the early 70's It was not a term in use at the time. Specifically the car was a 911S with option M471 but a standard 2.4S engine (as almost all the rally cars had rather than the race oriented M491 specification)

I have been puzzled for many years about the seemingly continuous use of a tangerine 911S with those plates by Zasada though the whole year even though there are plenty of photos of the massive damage at the rally of Poland on 13 - 16 July 1972 but it was there again for Wisla Rally on 15 September and Sachs rally Baltic on 23 September as well as later rallies that year.

However I believe that what happened was that the crashed car was returned to the factory (to eventually become 911 360 0001) and the factory took another competition prepared car (that was to be sold to someone else) and prepared it as a replacement car for Zasada - number plates and all. I dont know if they re-stamped the vin number to match the wrecked car (I dont think so) but they made it look almost the same. They MAY have also used the same engine. A part of the reason for that would be to make it easier to pass it back through customs etc behind the "iron curtain" that then existed with the minimum of paperwork fuss.

However there are a couple of minor details that are different in all photos pre the crash compared with after the crash. I have photos of the car in most of the rallies that year. In the earlier rallies (and the photos of the crashed car in Poland) the number plate has a dot between the 77 and 07 and again the KW. In all the photos post the crash the dots are replaced with a dash as the photos below show. the photo with the dots and rally number 3 are the Polish rally and the one with the dashes and rally number1 are at the Rally Baltic in September. In addition all of the pre crash photos show the two lights in the center of the bonnet low in line with the ones above the horn grills but al the ones afterwards show the two centre ones high.



There are documents existing that state that a new competition 2.4SR (the track version of the 1972"ST") that had been ordered by Jacques Bienvenue in Canada was cancelled by the factory because " the one destined for him was taken instead by the factory to replace one of their rally cars that had been totalled" and Peter Gregg and Brumos Porsche were asked to supply him one of theirs instead (911 230 1348). While I have no direct proof I think that this is where the replacement Zasada car came from as there was no official factory team that year and the Zasada car was the closest to one. I have never been able to track down the real identity of the "second" Zasada car and suspect that I will never be able to.
However back to your original point there is no doubt that the original 1972 911S Zasada car was rebuilt as 911 360 0001 and all the evidence is still in the body shell apart from the paperwork

[HughH]

given that you are in Poland and have a keen interest in this area do you have any photos of the car in the couple of rallies I dont have photos for
they are:

Vltava Rally (CZ) ERC 30 June - 02 July 1972 (They were there and received rallye plates BUT did not participate or send an apology)
and

Wisla Rally(PL) Polish Rally Championship 15-17 September 1972 (where they retired)

I have photos of:


Pneumant Rally(DDR) ERC 15-18 March 1972


Dolnoslski Rally(PL) Polish Rally Championship 20-21 May 1972

Semperit Rally ERC 8-11 June 1972 - note BEFORE the crash

Rallye Zlatni Bulgaria 23 June to 25 June 1972


Vltava Rally (CZ) ERC 30 June - 02 July 1972

Rally of Poland (PL) ERC 13-16 July 1972

Sachs Rallye Baltic ERC 23-24 September 1972



Munich-Wien-Budapest Rally ERC 28-30 September 1972


Yu Rally ERC 05-08 October 1972
and

21st Rallye Costa Brava 11th-12th February 1973

[_gonbau]

I love these moments in front of the screen! Thanks for this story time porsche!

[Kuba.Huminski]

Thank you for your help Hugh! Now it is clear for me 911 360 0001 is in fact Zasada's car. Unfortunetaly there are not many unknown photographs available, but if i'll get access to any i will post them asap.

Like i thought- there was more then one car with 77-07KW plates. So there is no possibility a barn find 911 from 1969 can be Zasada car like some think in Poland.

Hugh, here you are. Two photos from 16. Rajd Dolnoslaski.

[HughH]

thanks
I did not have either of them
these are the ones I have of that event



I have a suspicion that Zasada may have rented or borrowed those cars from the factory rather than owning them

I would not give up on finding an ex Zasada car in a barn - he had lots of them over that period and not all are accounted for. Indeed this "second" 77.07.KW seems to have never officially existed given the original one got converted to the RS vin and the records show the original vin as "scrapped" which apparently also translates into "dismantled" but the new version is definitely still around so quite possibly this one is around in plain sight as the vin is unknown

[911MRP]

Hi Hugh

Does this help.

707KW crashed at the International Polish Rally 13-15 July 1972. Sobieslaw Zazada was in second place behind Italian Pinto at time when he had a serious accident putting the car on its side and inflicting a lot of damage.



Source: period photo in publication among my collection dated Winter 1972. Photographer happened to be at scene of accident so took this snap of a significantly damaged car on its side in the scenery.

Have a feeling I've posted this image elsewhere on this forum but adding it again here as picture seems relevant to piecing together the story being discussed here.

Best wishes

Steve