Ultimate ST thread

[letsrollbabe]

One other detail of the museum RSR (which had been a 72 ST) is that at some point in its life it had a roll bar to the front A pillar that bolted to the plate still located on the sill. The questions are 1)when was it installed, and 2) why was it removed? When did full cages come into use by the factory?

Gib

[HughH]

I have seen photos of a1970's werks ST before restoration with a fuel pump for a heater attached up under the scuttle (almost under the windscreen) on the Right hand side.

I am confident that it was original to the car and was in the original position for that car.

however I have never seen one in situ before and would be interested to know if this was the standard positioning on all cars or only on this werks ST

[letsrollbabe]

Raj:

Looking through my '98 version of Starkey's book, it appears that most 74/75 RSRs in European competition still did not use full cages, but Brumos and Holbert in Daytona/Sebring of 74 had cages in their 74 RSRs. Maybe the safety rules were different in the US vs. Europe.

I agree with your thoughts that the museum RSR (renumbered ST to RS 911 360 0020) could have had a cage installed for either the Paul Ricard tests, but more likely when the rear wheel wells were opened up (after LeMans) for testing those huge rear slicks in order to provide more handling stability as the G forces would have been flexing the stock chassis quite a bit.

I can't imagine that those welded-in plates would have been done and not used...they are remnents of some factory testing somewhere along the line. These comments may better belong in the Targa Florio thread, but it is also a fact that many STs had full cages installed as they continued to compete over the years. Here are a couple of shots of the 72 Strahle ST interior showing a cage...although it appears to be attached to the pan and not the sills in front.

Gib

[HughH]

This is a picture from an early 1970's Werks ST rally car showing the dash.
There are three switches that I would like help in identifying.

they are the red and yellow/green ones to the right of the heater / air controls and the one without a knob on it further to the right.

this car had 4 auxiliary lights, a petrol heating system, full rally Halda or twinmaster etc,

I have attached a closeup of the switches as well in higher resolution where you can see the third switch looks like it is more like a rheostat or something that twists (and maybe should have something on it as a knob.)
however a photo of the interior of the Larousse 1972ST for the Monte, also attached shows a similar setup (highlighted in red). Again the third switch does not appear to have a knob on it and seems the same as the one in my picture. Maybe it is an adjustment for the brightness of the map light above it - but that is a wild guess on my part.

and , no , I can't follow the wiring to see where they go to - it is all disconnected

I dont recall seeing anything similar before -- anyone??

[HughH]

These are what appears to be a matched set of seats from a Werks ST rallye car.
One looks identical to the Scheel that Raj posted the adverts for (Rallye 400) in post #203 , and it does look different to the one in his car (apart from being dirtier)
The other, navigators, seat I am not sure about. I does look a little like an early Recaro but I am no expert in this area.

neither have headrests but there is provision for them.

the seat base of the large seat seems to be all aluminum and tips the seat forwards to gain access to the rear.

Questions:
1 is my identification of the large seat correct?
2 did it come with a tilting base?
3 is it likely to be aluminum as standard or not?
4 can anyone identify the other seat?
5 I have never seen an interior photo of a competition car of that era that did have headrests, would they have been used or not?

[Flunder]

Hugh:

Scheel

Scheel recliner is the type favored by competitors in the Monte. These are great seats and extremely comfy.

What is most interesting about that Scheel recliner in the picture is that it has the "GT" model runners installed on it - the same runners as used in a SixGT and sometimes spec'd for ST. It was used in some of the 71 Safari cars too. Extremely hard to find set of runners and worth some loot. The sliding mechanism is released by the handle mounted on the side rather than on the front as it would be on a standard set of Scheel runners or a Recaro runner.

The same style Scheel GT model runner is seen on the driver seat in your McKlein photo in your prior post.

I don't think the GT model runner was ever sold aftermarket by Scheel. It is a Porsche specific race bit as far as I know so a Werks provenance is highly likely.

Ferrari

Yikes!

The other seat appears to be the factory optional "Ferrari " model seat, offered in 65-66 and very valuable! It is essentially a Speedster seat if steel but if it has an alloy bucket is the same or similar to 356 B GS/GT. Very cool seat.

It has the extended thigh support characteristic of and unique to the Ferrari but not seen on Speedster; so I am pretty sure that is a legit Ferrari. Is it yours? We are talking hens teeth on that seat!

The Ferrari is shown in Dr. J's book on authenticity. RARE!

Here is a pic from E-H. Not mine.

Observations

We know that the drivers and co-drivers of Werks rally entries were invited to choose the seat they most favored. That accounts for both the wide variety of seats seen in factory built rally cars and also the fact that the Driver and Co-driver seats were rarely a matched pair.

Trifecta

This unusual pair being together, the exteme rarity of the Ferrari seat and the GT model runners being fitted on the Scheel would all support a Werks entry provenance.

Final Thought

Hugh, in the pic of the seats in the car, it is apparent that the roll bar has the upholstered padding that is unique to Werks rally car entries. That is the type of roll bar seen in all of the Safari cars.

So Hugh, this is the question, have you found an original Werks rally car? I believe that you have. My guess is one of the '71 Safari cars.

Tell us, are there holes up in the co-driver's footwell for the auxiliary oil lines (these were fitted to Werks rally entries because the external lines were prone to getting crimped in rough terrain).

Tell us, does it have a single thick washer welded onto each of the strut towers to mount a 2,3L style factory strut bar?

[Flunder]

Guys,

I think HughH has found an original Werks rally car, most likely a "71 Safari.

[advtracing]

looking at that seat and others posted , i came across this seat and although it appears to have been messed with , it has a old frame and fibreglass skelton? would this be a early scheel?

[letsrollbabe]

A while back on Flunder's great 'Another Hot Rod' thread the subject of the 72 ST factory front bumper came up because of the picture showing it to be a metal bumper. I made the comment that I had never seen an ST with trim mounted. Well, just as is almost always the case with Porsche, saying 'never did that' is usually proved wrong. Here are a couple pics from the Random Racing pics thread (thanks Curt Egerer) showing STs (same car?) with trim on the front bumper (which means it was probably the metal version)....Go figure! (Didn't he realize how much weight he could have saved?)

This may not have been a Werks ST, but it has the horn grill pull cable for a the front trunk mounted cutoff switch, which was an early factory solution for this function. Maybe Hugh or others can identify the S/N to clarify which VIN it was and whether it was a factory ST.

Gib

Edit: Upon further examination, it does appear to be the same car. At least they used the light weight 'T' trim and not that WIDE 'S' trim.

[HughH]

Gib

I am not sure if it is the same car or not but I think the car in the two competition pictures is 911 130 0721.

Here it is in 1971 - before Curts pictures and just after it left the factory by the look of the Zoll plates, in 1973 at the 1973 targa, and recently when it was the subject of a magazine article in the UK

I am sure UK members will recognize it

this is information provided by autofarm when it was sold through there some years ago
"Further information
• An outstanding example in all ways - very hard to criticise this ST!
• Completed Coppa Intereuropa at Monza 1000kms 1971, 17th overall Targa Florio 1972, 12th overall and 1st Special GT, Targa Florio 1973 as well as many other period events from 1971-75
• Short-stroke 2.5 litre engine to the full 275bhp Type 911/73 1972 race spec with high butterfly mechanical injection (hardly run in!)
• Factory supplied in early 1971 to full Group 4 M491 Race spec' "