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Thread: Concours & Mechanical Upgrades

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RC70SCoupe View Post
    John,

    The picture you painted of your car...it must be a VERY nice car..

    Enjoy the Carmel Concours...If the judges think your car is not worthy of a podium finish, their loss.

    Have a fun day and you'll get to meet alot of people from everywhere.

    JUST don't park by me.. They'll look at me and ask why am I there?
    Huge +1

    Many years ago, I showed my car in local PCA concours AND raced it in time trials, hillclimbs and autocrosses. I actually beat Dick Cotrell (may he rest in peace) who was a concours fanatic who regularly showed a beautiful 356 that was heavily modified in the "competition" class. I beat him because he I was actually racing and so got more points in the Zone 7 competition. Boy, was I surprised!

    I never really aspired to win in concours. I just enjoyed yet another aspect of Porsche ownership and the people you get to meet. Go have fun with your car in a beautiful setting and see what you learn from the judges. More importantly, get ready to have many people drool over what appears to be a stunning car. And, if you're lucky, you might even go home with a neat trophy.
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  2. #12
    Your Facets look very nice!

    Unfortunately, those "ugly modern fuel pumps" work better.

    That is the problem with trying to be "correct." In an ideal world, modern reliability and performance would look the same on the surface, I guess.

  3. #13
    So many questions, so few answers....
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    442

    Expectations for Carmel

    I had my '67S there last year. Let me start by saying that I had a fantasstic time at this event. Everything was first rate. The exhibitors, judges, officials and spectators were all having a good time.

    Carmel was also my first experience with an SCCA concours event. I have done a couple more since then. The standards are much different than those used in the PCA Zone 7 series that I also participate in. The PCA Zone standards place a heavy emphasis on having a CLEAN presentation. Orginality isn't a factor unless you are showing in the Preservation class. For example, in a Zone event you could have aftermarket seats in a '69 T and as long as they were clean there would be no issue/deduction in most classifications. In the SCCA standards you would get dinged for those same seats. The SCCA judges expect and assume the car will be clean. If it isn't, you will get dinged. They look for things that are not correct for the year and model of the car. I have a painted fan (red, because I like it that way) and I get dinged for it every time. They will ding you for things like an incorrect radio, non-orginal headlights, missing tool kit items (hint---be sure you have an extra lug nut in your kit if appropriate) and so on. It is all about originality.

    If you have a heavily modified car, you will have a difficult time depending on the class you enter. I don't know what the qualifications are to enter a tracked car. Check the webpage for the Palo Alto Concours that took place a few weeks ago. There was, I believe, a set of SCCA councours rules and maybe even a sample of the judge's score sheet. These will give you a very good idea as to what you can expect. I did a mental rundown of my car before the event and the judges dinged me pretty much as I expected.

    Regardless of the outcome, you will have a good time in Carmel. Lots of beautiful cars and wonderful people.

    Good luck!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    1967 911S Coupe
    1991 944S2 Coupe

    Past projects:
    1967 912 Coupe
    1969 911T Coupe
    1985.5 944 SR Coupe

  4. #14
    Vintageracer John Straub's Avatar
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    John...as one of the judges last year and one of them again this year I'll tell you this is not realy like a Porsche Parade Concours. It's more like a normal show.

    The judges are instructed that the key purpose for this kind of show is to promte the preservation of each marque in it's original state. Therefore, the primary focus of the judging will be on preservation, originality, authenticity and condition with secondary emphasis on cosmetics.

    If a car has unique or unusual design charactistics that place originallity in question, the entrant should be prepared to offer substantiating documentation to the Cheif Class Judge. Saftey-related items that are not original, such as seat belts, fire extinguishers and other will be acceptable provided the installation in neat.

    Make sure all items funtion such as windows, horn, radios, and lights. Have an owners manual as well as a tool kit. And make sure they are clean. You will be asked to start your car. Parade Concours do not do that.

    We are instructed as judges that some slight road dust and wear is to be expected...cars are meant to be driven and race cars are meant to be raced! I do know...all the judges are total Porshe enthusiasts.

    I alway remind myself before a show, win or lose...the car is always better off for it.

    This is a great show...you will have people loving your car...so have fun and soak it up!!!

    I'm not sure what class I'll be judging, I asked for early 911s, but the last I heard they had me with the 914/6 GTs.

    I'll see you there.

    John
    1965 911 #301111, Red Book Vol 1 "Cover Car," owned 53 years.
    1967 911 #307347, bare-bones, some road wear, a little surface rust, and a few dents..., owned 13 years.
    1970 914/6GT, (Sold - ran the last three Rennsports)owned 30 years.


    Photography Site: JohnStraubImageWorks.com

    Registry #983
    R Gruppe #741

  5. #15
    Senior Member jloucks388's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Straub View Post
    John...
    The judges are instructed that the key purpose for this kind of show is to promte the preservation of each marque in it's original state. Therefore, the primary focus of the judging will be on preservation, originality, authenticity and condition with secondary emphasis on cosmetics.


    +1

    I went last year and got third place in the '69-'73 group. It was all about preservation. A couple of very orignal 911Ts won the day. However, the totally restored and beautiful '67 Auga Blue in the '64-'68 group won as well. So there is some latitude for recognizing non-original cars as well.

    You'll have a great day regardless of the placings. I look forward to seeing your car!
    -Jim

    '72 911T
    '02 B5 S4 (RS4 Clone)
    '12 997.2 Turbo Manual
    '19 B9 RS5 (Daily)

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by John Straub View Post
    You will be asked to start your car. Parade Concours do not do that.
    That's too bad if they don't have you start your car any more at Parade. I showed my friend's '74 RSR at San Diego in 1992. One of my favorite memories was firing it up when it was being judged...

    • Click off both ignition switches
    • Crank on batteries for a few seconds to circulate oil
    • Click both ignition switches back on
    • Fire the engine
    • Enjoy the stunned look on the faces of the crowd as they listen to three litres of un-muffled RSR music (love those original megaphones)
    • Quickly turn off the engine at the request of the judge
    • Check that item off the judge's sheet - PASS
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  7. #17
    Vintageracer John Straub's Avatar
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    At the Parade, now they just have drive on the field, thats all. No starting it after your in place.

    To bad...I also miss all those good sounds!!!!

    John
    1965 911 #301111, Red Book Vol 1 "Cover Car," owned 53 years.
    1967 911 #307347, bare-bones, some road wear, a little surface rust, and a few dents..., owned 13 years.
    1970 914/6GT, (Sold - ran the last three Rennsports)owned 30 years.


    Photography Site: JohnStraubImageWorks.com

    Registry #983
    R Gruppe #741

  8. #18
    Lighting Specialist jaudette3's Avatar
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    Wow!!

    I just came in from my garage after having one of the best times I've ever had with these old cars. The window frames on my show queen
    are in good condition but of course I want them to be perfect as I slide uncontrollably down the concours slippery slope. I checked into replating today and it looks like things are tight with Pebble Beach coming up soon.

    So I went through the parts cache at German Master Tech, my old shop, and discovered a completed window frame assembly wrapped in cardboard and tape. It had a label on it and looked like an original piece. So I brought it home and unwrapped it.



    The chrome, seeing light for the first time in over 40 years, is absolutely perfect, perfect, perfect. I love the deepness and richness of German chrome from the 60's but this is the first time I have ever it new. Authentic car jewelry. There was a tape on the top frame with the number 901.542.022.20 written on it. And there was a computer punch card taped on a rail with IBM Deutschland written on it that must have been an inventory card. I had a sense of how Theodore Davis must of felt when he discovered King Tut's tomb.

    Cheers,
    JohnA
    Lighting Resources for Hardcore Air-Cooled Porsche Enthusiasts”
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    AC Shop: BEST-IN-CLASS Air Cooled 911 Lighting Parts => 911BestInClass.com
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  9. #19
    Porsche - There Is No Substitute 2POINT7's Avatar
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    John,

    I'll throw my two cents worth in since no one else has discussed the importance of your verbal presentation to the judges. Not something you really do in a local PCA event but from what it sounds like, this Carmel Concours is the kind of event where this can really help you out.

    Think about what you want them to know about the car. If you have used it in rallies or other significant organized drives, they will appreciate hearing about that. Judges always love a car that looks fantastic and gets driven with some regularity. Give them some history on your particular car, ownership history etc. - any of those things that stand out and make your car unique in any way. why you've done some of the things to it that you have, just don't point out non-original components. It is up to them to spot those and be prepared to answer their questions that they may ask about non-original stuff.

    You'll formally introduce yourself, then your car, then spend up to about 2 minutes max covering the things I outlined above. Make some notes about what you want to talk about or, like I usually do, you'll forget to talk about some important things you meant to as you get caught up in the momentary anxiety of having your car critiqued by the official judges.

    A good verbal presentation can go a long way in setting your car and the passion you have for it apart from others who don't put much/any thought into this.

    I'm not arriving until Wednesday afternoon so I'll miss this event but hope to run into you during the weekend. I'll be driving the AutoKennel prepared Lowenbrau car throughout my visit so I'll be relatively easy to spot.

    Good luck. You'll enjoy and have fun at the Concours; then get it out and drive it!

    Here I am making my verbal presentation to the judges at Hilton Head - Nov. '08.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Ed Cave
    Atlanta, GA

    Member No. 738

    1958 Porsche 356A Sunroof Coupe
    1998 Porsche Carrera S
    2008 Porsche Carrera S (her dd)
    2013 Audi A7 (my dd)

  10. #20
    So many questions, so few answers....
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
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    Ed is spot on!!!

    Good call!

    Be sure you step up and really take advantage of the opportunity to explain to the judges what you were after. Let them know how much of the work you have done yourself. Sell it baby! Explain the details. Point out the hard to find pieces and details that make your car special.

    This is one situation where it certainly does NOT pay to be modest. Go for it.

    Thanks Ed. That was a key point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    1967 911S Coupe
    1991 944S2 Coupe

    Past projects:
    1967 912 Coupe
    1969 911T Coupe
    1985.5 944 SR Coupe

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