Ultimate R thread

[Ernie W]

Hugh... did you notice the color on the Kardex for R1

[HughH]

yes and I dont think that it was a typo error.... but maybe repainted to light ivory from Polorot in the R&D department I wonder if they painted over the original color or stripped it.

But I have seen errors on kardexes before but not like that

that Mader quote is very interesting and I think conclusive - shows that i need to buy more books

[Eric Gratz]

Here's a photo including S-YZ 29, Porsche 911R R2 prototype, along with S-ZL855 from the 1968 collection of Porsche photos on Targapedia. There are bunch of wheels and tires in the back of that garage at Cefalu' Hotel S. Lucia.

http://www.targapedia.com/album_targ...ucia%20(2).jpg

[Eric Gratz]

Three of the production 911R had license plates S-K2401, S-K2402 and S-K2403. Was number plate S-K2404 ever used? If so, that could be a match for the partial plate shown in the picture above.

[HughH]

"Three of the production 911R had license plates S-K2401, S-K2402 and S-K2403. Was number plate S-K2404 ever used? If so, that could be a match for the partial plate shown in the picture above"

That is a good question I was thinking exactly the same thing. I have never seen that plate used on anything BUT Porsche did use consecutively numbered plates .

Also I dont think that this is Proto 1 but a "production / series" car. Proto1 had normal front and rear lights - even at Mugello a few months after this. This car, even though it is a poor quality photo with the service van seems to have the specific "911R lights"

[Eric Gratz]

I agree, I don’t think this is the prototype seen in the collections from the earlier years. It looks to be one of the production cars that had a fuel injected motor. Number R#17 falls in this group. I not sure of the others.

[davep]

It is interesting, but not surprising, that the normal production cars with vins either side of 305876 were completed in August and September 1966 that this car - being a prototype was not completed until December.

Respectfully Hugh, I think this is a mis-interpretation of the dates. The December date on the Kardex is really an invoice date or shipping date from the Factory. I believe the true completion date would be closer to August. For those cars that I have true completion dates and the Kardex dates, there is usually a week or two gap after completion to the invoice date. So, I think the car was completed in August and then was used in Weissach or wherever the motorsport group was located. In this regard, I think the Kardex is incomplete in that it has nothing about the transfer of the car from Versuch status; but perhaps the March 1967 date is the release from that status. MY humble opinion only.

[HughH]

Hi Dave
You may well be correct
However I was working on the assumption that, like some of the other prototypes, the part done shells were pulled from the production line in approx date order with similarly numbered shells and then transported to another area to get made up into a final car.

From what I have seen in a fantastic article in 000 magazine, the build book shows that happened with Proto 4. It has an exact date that Proto 4 left the line as a bare shell without drive train or other finishing (and if other paperwork shown is correct without doors, front fenders, bumpers or engine lid let alone any internal finishing) (28 Feb 1967) EDIT I misread the number in the build book even though it was in a feature about Proto 4 the build book extract was for Proto 2 not Proto 4. Ernie posted a Kardex for proto 4 below which suggests that it was made slightly earlier with a kardex date of 22 January 1967. So it would be interesting to see what dates were on its kardex. That is because there is other factory paperwork in the article on it (and Proto 3) dated 28 JUNE 1967 ie 4 months later, with a memo from the test dept to the assembly dept saying that the test dept had received 2 car bodies to convert to R type models and they WILL be equipped with engine etc at a later date etc etc and you will receive details at a later date. Then there is a further memo on 16 November 1967 from Helmet Bott requesting work done on the shell at Baur at Cannstatt including paint, doors, windows electrics, trunk , dash etc so it does not seem that that particular prototype was completed until almost a year after its shell had been taken of the line. That made me think that a similar, slow, process occurred with Proto 1 (although not as slow). After all even though Proto 1 was the most like a standard S in looks it must have taken some time to work out all of the details and it seems that the R model may not have been the highest priority at the time.

Another interesting aside on these is that Christoph Mader was quoted as saying that when he was doing the 911R book a few years ago he was surprised about the lack of information and paperwork at the factory on these. To me that seems to indicate that, at least initially, they were almost a "hobby" gig by some engineers that went along as time allowed rather than something with a proper project time line and urgency

[davep]

The record keeping was not a forte at Porsche back then. It also seems the pipelines were very long as well. If we have documented dates, then we must accept them. However, we then have to try and fit them into a timeline that makes sense. I understand that for the production cars Reutter would deliver full trimmed bodies but lacking suspension and drive train. 307670 should have been with the cars coming off the line in February 1967, so Feb 28 fits. Perhaps it was delivered by Reutter at about that time, and could have been special ordered without trimming.

[Eric Gratz]

It is interesting how both 911R prototypes R1 and R2 progressed from nondescript development mules to full fledged race cars. The timing of when the photographs of both were taken before they got famous may not be clear, but R1 and R2 eventually got wheels that filled their fenders and earned their Porsche side scripts.

Attachment 543621Porsche 911R Prototype R1 R2.pdf