Is this Kremer car and S and not a T

[HughH]

Raj
I don't know when the fuhrmann car was constructed. I suspect it came off the line as a normal 73 S and was then modified. Most of the information I have on it is from the RS book.

Furthermore I don't understand how 360 0019 (R1) could have evolved from 330 0789 and have an oil door (which it did) unless 330 0789 in turn evolved from a "320" car, as it is unlikely that a "330" car would have an oil door if newly constructed, especially that far into the production series. I suspect they were heavily into recycling at that time due to the tight financial position.

I am not sure what engines were in the cars at the le mans test. Race records show they were in the Grand Touring 3000 class AND Sports 3000 class (one each) but that does not mean they ran a 3.0 engine. At Daytona only a month before Le Mans test, the R cars are recorded as running non homologated 2.8's.

Targa was a month and a half after le mans test. You showed the targa records that Singer wrote at the time in post #50. they show a 911/74 engine in R6. That is the 95 x 70.4 2994 engine - ie the 3 litre one so it was bieing used by then.

The interesting thing looking at engines and "official documents" is the wagenpass that is shown in post # 36 for 0020 R2 shows it having a series production 2687 cc engine with a bore of 90mm and stroke of 70.4mm. This is despite it being shown as a "special GT" ie group 4 car in Grand Touring 3000 class elsewhere on the document. We saw above that the homologation papers for group 4 show a 92 x 70.4 2808 engine as correct for the car IF it was in "special GT".

[DAVSER]

What about this car? http://www.magicsix.de/25st.php

I think is a 'T' version...

David

[HughH]

Raj

thanks

that explains why car #62 was in sport 3000 class. I was trying to find singer's account of the test last night (which I know i have here somewhere) and i thought had that detail in it but couldn't. I remember him commenting on an unusual part to do with specification of the car (s) that caused troubles with the official entry.

the other thing about the test and the 4 hour race is that the official race records that are published have the winning car for van lennep #62, as R2 (0020) and the other RSR (#61) as R6 (0588) with Schurti.

Based on singers notes, and other factors ( like identifying marks , flares etc) I think that car #61 was R2 and with the brand new 3 litre engine the winning car was R7, (0686) and R6 was not even there.

the "official record" of which R car was in which race I think is still a little scrambled (which is strange after all this time unless it was done deliberately at the time to allow easy access through customs etc which was not unheard of with the prototype cars) and as I remember was a topic we covered on another thread - possibly the targa one.

on the car david posted I tried to read the production number partly shown in one photo but either my eyes, the screen or the original photo was not good enough.

[letsrollbabe]

excellence was expected page 736


In its final from,developing 315 bhp, the three litre engine was given its first public outing at the Le Mans test weekend at the beginning of april.Installed in one of the Martini Carreras,it powered the coupe to a timed speed of 179 mph on the Mulsanne Straight-an astonishing accomplishment. And Gijs van Lennep and Herbert Muller,the regular Martini drivers,took it to an overall victory in the four-hour Le Mans race on April 1st.The new engine was first run in a championship 1000km race two weeks later,at Dijon,France.


Raj

According to Starkey's book (3rd Edition, '98), the 3.0 engine received official FIA homologation on May 5, 73. Apparently, these earlier races were run using other than FIA rules, or they were in the prototype class.

We need to get good data on Kremer's VINs from owners of the existing cars (also those of other privateers from the day), or from those able to get access to them. It will be interesting to see how many were S vs T. We know that the Ss received the low homologated weight in 70, so all 911s would be entered in events as Ss, and certainly for results posted by Porsche since they would have incentive to promote the S version to the public.

As we have identified, the S designation really had little to do with the modified competition car features (vs a T) since so much was changed to be competitive, but would there have been any requirement for a VIN to be associated with an S to receive FIA papers?

Gib

[letsrollbabe]

Gib


P.S 3.0 litre did you mean May 5th of 1973.I think just like the 2.8 ran in Nov and daytona but did not get approval til march 73.Le Mans test is a non championship event.I don't know what class they ran at Dijon-i think GT.

Yes, I meant May 5, 73...and I have edited the posting.

[911T1971]

Karim
Is it possible if your mechanic could remember if it was a S based or T based car or the actual vin.That is one cool car also can you ask him about the modification to the MFI-compared to the factory-particularly the rear of the bosch unit.ANd it looks to have BBS at the four corners what were the widths.Thanks in advance.
Raj

I finally got the answers:

VIN 911 2301 417
Factory delivered to Swiss Mr.Grieder, used on several Euro GT races.
Original light yellow, (silver respray in 1977)

Factory lightweight interior, factory flares front/rear, bucket race seats, felt carpet on roof (interior).
Modified/enlarged and lightweight front spoiler, 380mm steering wheel, 10K rpm/min tacho, 100l tank,
270hp@8k rpm/min based on 2.4S (2.5l S/T ?) engine.
Crankshaft, Crankcase, Conrods original.
Bigger and modified lighthweight cylinders 86.7mm, race pistons, Bosch Injection or by choice Weber 46IDA,
Race camshaft, Race muffler, transistor dual ingnition, sport clutch.
BBS 7x15, 9x15
After 14 races Kremer modified the engine to 285hp@8k rpm/min.

According to Mechanic, it is still unclear if the Kremers later raced the car but the
records are showing it was rather a privateer entry S/T who received regular maintenance by Kremer in Cologne.

Today owned by Raceline, Mr.Feustel, Germany
Mr.Feustel also owns the 1970 Monte winner S/T ST 5704.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...st-5704-a.html