90s R Gruppe 911

[peekaboo]

Hello varunan123,

Do you know about NGT C2's , ? This article confuses me a bit :

www.porsche964.co.uk/variants/confusion.htm

In it , they do not mention an 'NGT' by this monniker. Is an M001 , what people would have used when racing in the NGT class in europe ? Or would they have been using 'M003 competition' cars ?


I have seen original organisers racing entry lists and results listing an NGT class. And I have seen Marco Maranello advertize a car as an "NGT".

I had started to think that 'NGT' was not a model . But besides Eleven Parts using that name . I see this sentence by Adrian Streather using the term also in another article , and he is suppose to be an expert concerning 964's. From his sentence , I am going to guess an NGT is actually a M003 ? :

"The Carrera RS basic and NGTs were used by club sports enthusiasts and professionals alike for racing."

[pu911rsr]

I think the NGT's were the same as the Carrera Cup Race car (M001). The M003 was basically a clubsport RS, race options added to a street car rather than a car that was built as a race car at factory. The US Carrera Cups were originally all destined to be M001 cars, identical specification to to the NGT but conversion performed in US at PMNA, Andial, but when it became apparent that not enough would be sold for a US CUP race series to be feasible they were all sold in the "street specification" through Porsche dealers.
Phil

[t6dpilot]

Very very nice Raj. Congrats on the new toy. Now you have two reasons to come to Autobahn. Comon Raj.....

[peekaboo]

Thx very much v123,

I think you just set the standard for online info. regarding these models of C2 RS. And yes , you seem to have gotten a gem. And the only variant of the competition models, one would be able to have & use currently in the states.

[Mark Morrissey]

My bad on post 1069 with the blue car. It turns out it's a 1982 car that has been modified to look like a 964. Please accept my apology

[larwik]

No Problems, Mark...No harm done...Thanks / Lars...

[racemor]

My bad on post 1069 with the blue car. It turns out it's a 1982 car that has been modified to look like a 964. Please accept my apology

I was wondering because in the second picture you could see through the front slits to the ground, and there was no black, lower lip to the bumper.That area is all enclosed on these cars. Too bad, that blue was cool and selling at 1/2 price!

[letsrollbabe]

NGT, M003, M001.....Phewww....Man, that list of mods is sort of mind boggling. That list of ways to make 964s stiffer, lighter, faster, stop quicker, handle better, (all while losing creature comforts...) is the 90s version of the Sports Purpose Parts list to make a 90s R Gruppe 964.

For those of you who (like me) don't see a Cup Car or 964 RS being parked in the garage anytime soon, take that list and decide how to make your bargain-priced 964 something more special to you. Even the garden variety 964 has a twin plug 3.6L engine, a pretty trick coil over suspension (that can easily be improved and adjustable), superior brakes, and bodies that are probably the best 911s ever built.

So go out and drive that 964, modify it (because you haven't spent too much money to buy it), and enjoy modern AC and sound, and a snarly exhaust note (by removing the primary muffler). It won't be a Cup or RS, but for street use, it's more comfortable to drive, can sound just as good, and be nearly as fast, and you can enjoy it without worrying about the cost of ownership since the depreciation cost is going to go negative (appreciate in value) over time. (I think the Cup and RSs will too, but the price of entry is a little higher on those 'investments', and you probably will treat them a little differently....no thrashing...)

[pu911rsr]

Bob G did write a lot of great information about the 964's. He recently sold his Cup.
Phil

[Bob Gagnon]

Here are some details on the differences between euro cup and us cup-other than the DOT stuff left on the M001 version-power windows,alarm system,thicker rear glass with third light,standard wiring harness,DOT door beams,77 litre tank vs 92 litre,special ABS cut-off harness in us model,larger washer bottle,the last details below

raj

http://carreracupusa.org/Race/Euro-v...-vs-CupUSA.htm

Actually that photo shows the differences between the cars proposed for the USA Cup series and the European Cup series racing cars. The differences were that the Euro cars used adjustable rear drop links and solid engine mounts. Option M001 cars are the true racing Carrera Cup cars built in house at Porsche. M002 was the Touring and M003 was the FIA N/GT car. All these "M" options were based on the European "Basic RS" car.

There is a lot of confusion because an M001 Carrera Cup race car built in house in Germany was based on the Basic RS they had there and Porsche was hamstrung by the US government at the time which would not allow them to import any race car that looked like a street car.

The solution was to create a "Basic RS" for the USA and import that, a car with all the trick stuff of the European Basic but with the necessary equipment for the USA. This car was NEVER intended to be sold as imported, but only intended to be sold after conversion to something close to M001 Carrera Cup specification by Andial. This plan did not work so the cars were sold as "Carrera Cup USA Edition" cars, but they were NOT a true Carrera Cup, really they should have been called "RS Basic USA Edition"...but that was too close to RS America for the sales people.