90s R Gruppe 911

[911Jetta]

Just started my engine rebuild...I was tired of the growing oil leaks

Any recommended "while you're in there" mods? I was going to do a car bypass and cams...

I've had both a primary bypass and a SW 93 chip for a couple years, but only recently installed a cat bypass. I love it!

First off, the sound is great. Overall it's just a little louder with the cat bypass, but only a notch louder. What I really like is that the sound seem fuller and a little more raw. It's a really deep, strong 3.6 rumble now.

I've lived with my previous exhaust mods for a couple years now, so my but dyno is pretty calibrated to that set up. I wasn't expecting much gain, but was surprised that now the power band seemed to move down a little...in effect the car feels like it has the same power now at 3,500 that it used to have at 4,000. Throttle response down low feels better also. I'm not promising big gains, but all of this was very noticeable to me.

As a bonus I’m also happy with the slight weight reduction and reduced heat in the area. I don't notice the smell, but my family confirmed that it smells a little in the car after I accelerate through a couple gears, then clears up. Doesn't smell noticeably worse in the garage.

BTW, I've used BP exclusively for the past couple of years and my cat looked great when I removed it. I bought a used Fabspeed cat bypass. It’s an excellent product that was a direct bolt-on project. No spacing issues.

[911Jetta]

Initially I didn't like the 964-"full diaper look" bumpers and I was warned to "stay away" because all the various oil-leaks, complicated diagnostics, etc, etc...but with the fan-club here(Marco, Chris Tallon, Christian, Boba, Gib, Fryards, et.al)...I started to become a fan myself and I really like the damn thing(even the rear bumper, especially lowered and with the RS-Euro butt...)....

I know what you mean about the bumpers, but I think most of the effect comes from looking at the car in pictures at different angles. It can distort the effect somewhat. I think they did a great job on the front bumper. Again, it can look big in pictures but it's actually a very clever design. That said, rear bumper could be a little bit smaller, but I'm sure it was a muffler issue, to make sure everything was covered (an exposed exhaust is so '70's =;>)

Some fun comparison pictures I took a while back. (sorry my car is still at 4X4 height)


It's actually amazing how close the front bumper profile is to a longhood.

[Type911]

Initially I didn't like the 964-"full diaper look" bumpers and I was warned to "stay away" because all the various oil-leaks, complicated diagnostics, etc, etc...but with the fan-club here(Marco, Chris Tallon, Christian, Boba, Gib, Fryards, et.al)...I started to become a fan myself and I really like the damn thing(even the rear bumper, especially lowered and with the RS-Euro butt...)..Now and then I hear a comment that they are notorious "leakers"...is that true? ...you can tell us the truth...we have gotten plenty of "cool-aid" so we're not objective at all...They are really super-cool and I wouldn't mind having one..../ Lars...

Lars,
Notorious leakers?! I dont really think so, no more than any other air-cooled 911. The 964 gets a bad rap from people who recite stuff they "heard", or read online. or from someone who said something who has no experience with the cars. You see these experts chime in everytime someone asks "I'm thinking about buying a 964...".

If the cylinder heads did leak, most if not all have been repaired by now. Tim Holt who buys and sells over 100 964's a year told me the 1990 model had the most issues with the cyl. head leaks. Seeling that many 964's on an annual basis I guess he would know. I have a friend who has an early 89 C4 (3/89 production date) that has no leaks, and no evidence of a cylinder head leak repair. My 91 coupe had extensive leak repairs done by an over-zealous previous owner at 38,000 miles, the car now has 73,000 miles and the engine is bone dry, not even a seap of any kind or any wet oil residue anywhere. The motor is the cleanest, driest, most leak-free car I have ever owned. The Counselor's 91 Targa was produced 10-1-90, 18 days after my coupe, and has never had the heads off for a leak repair. The engine is also bone dry with zero leaks.

The most common leaks on these cars that I've come across or heard of are the oil pressure sending unit green o-ring fails and leaks oil down the side and back of the engine. There also is a o-ring seal that fails where the P/S pump mates up with the camshaft. This seal failure makes for a pretty big engine oil leak that runs down the right heat exchanger, which in turn smokes on the hot exchanger/exhaust and appears more catostrophic than it really is. As Bob mentioned the valve covers can leak, or become warped, or the cam covers can leak. All pretty minor repairs that are not that big of a deal.

I'm sure Marco will chime in and offer his opinion, and a list of the common ailments he sees on these cars. My experience has been generally very good.

Buy one and come drink the "cool-aid" with us

[boba]

. (even the rear bumper, especially lowered and with the RS-Euro butt...) Lars...

Agreed, the RS euro rear center section gives a massive visual rear end weight reduction. Makes a much better look. If you saw Joey's car at Treffen, it was stunning.

[MikeM]

After stumbling upon this thread a few years back I drove one of these great cars and fell hard. What's not to like?
Feels like it is carved out of a block of steel... with the right mods, it sounds and handles like a 911 should.... the power plant WILL put a smile on your face and force you to look into a radar detector..
Owned mine for 3 years and put more miles on it then all my prior 3 911's combined...drank the cool-aid and never looked back.
I would look for reasons to drive that car, go pick up groceries sure, take the 64, out to the movies?,take the 64, drive Philly to Florida and back? take the 64....car never disappointed..

I also heard/read all the stories about leaks and other issues but my 964 leaked no more then any other 911 that I owned, which is to say, not much...Like all 911's of every vintage, they did have their issues but most are now known and most likely addressed...an outstanding model that lived up to all the hype this thread has created....unfortunately, my wife requires that I stay on a one 911 diet at a time until further notice, so I reluctantly sold mine to help fund my new project.....Damn, I miss that car....hopefully some day another 964 will somehow find its way back into my garage...

This thread has some serious 911 owners of every vintage who's knowledge and experiences speaks volumes in endorsing this model....IMO? if this model was the dog that some would lead you to believe, this thread wouldn't exist....although the general overall opinions of the 964 in the PCar community has turned in recent years....unfortunately, that little secret we called the 964 is no more as pricing the last couple of years certainly has shown.

If you are in the market for one?....my advice? search for the best example that you can find, get a PPI from a shop or some one who really knows this model, BUY IT, then never look back...the 964 will put a smile on your face that so few cars do...

[Chris Tallon]

I can go on forever about these cars. With the right mods, they are absolute joy rides! If they dont leak a little, you are simply not driving them hard enough

[Chris Tallon]

If anyone is interested, there is a 93 RS America for sale on RSA Regstry in Yellow, 1 of 4 in that color. 43K miles, $200K

[fryardds]

If anyone is interested, there is a 93 RS America for sale on RSA Regstry in Yellow, 1 of 4 in that color. 48K miles, $200K

Agreed Chris great color! Beyond ridiculous price.

[Chris Tallon]

Have heard of several RSA's selling in the $140-$160K range. I believe Canepa sold a couple over the past year or so in that range.

[boba]

Those numbers are hard to fathom, there have been C2's and C4' with asking prices in the $40's.
Longhood prices way up.
I guess it is better to be holding and be able to sit and shake your head in disbelief than to be looking for one.