90s R Gruppe 911

[Gburner]

Escalating prices have in many ways ruined this hobby...

I did not buy a 911 to become a collector, I wanted affordable/reliable performance.
The ratio of the cost of a 911 vs performance (250hp 911) at over $100k puts it in a price range of many higher performance choices in the sports car market.
I like my 911 but they have become too expensive and under-powered for the price.
For the prices stated here (personal experience) you can find a Historic race car with triple the power/handling/performance.
Still the 911 may be the most reliable of all of those choices.
I'll keep my 2 911s but not shopping for another at these prices.

[Mr9146]

I did not buy a 911 to become a collector, I wanted affordable/reliable performance.
The ratio of the cost of a 911 vs performance (250hp 911) at over $100k puts it in a price range of many higher performance choices in the sports car market.
I like my 911 but they have become too expensive and under-powered for the price.
For the prices stated here (personal experience) you can find a Historic race car with triple the power/handling/performance.
Still the 911 may be the most reliable of all of those choices.
I'll keep my 2 911s but not shopping for another at these prices.

Then you missed the point of this entire thread. The glory of ALL 911s (and 356s) is their ability to be driven off the racetrack, to the grocery store or to pick te kids up from school. No other car in history has been as versatile, reliable, and "affordable" as the 911. Ever. Not even the Beetle.

I'm not saying you're wrong, Mike, but if you're all about performance and horsepower and racetrack and blah blah then, sorry, you missed the point of this entire thread.

[Gburner]

The glory of ALL 911s (and 356s) is their ability to be driven off the racetrack, to the grocery store or to pick the kids up from school. No other car in history has been as versatile, reliable, and "affordable" as the 911. Ever. Not even the Beetle.

For many years when these cars were affordable and not considered investments we drove them to work daily and on the weekends at the track.

Marco affordable at today's prices seems to be questionable.
To some yes no doubt, but for most of us not likely.

With prices going up is anyone taking their 911 to the grocery store or to pick up the kids still?
My 86 Turbo Look is getting completely restored and when its done it will never be parked in a Vons parking lot, making runs to the post office or used as a taxi for school kids or raced on a race track, never again.
Those days are over.

I agree the 911 was once all those things, "versatile, reliable, and affordable".
At these prices now its just a reliable underpowered overpriced sports car.
Seems in the under 300hp bracket some of the Alfa prices are a deal compared to the 911s...

If performance is important you should try my perspective, a 700hp dog ring transmission IMSA race car for the same price.
Correct I'm not going to be taking that one to the post office either.

[Mr9146]

For many years when these cars were affordable and not considered investments we drove them to work daily and on the weekends at the track.

Marco affordable at today's prices seems to be questionable.
To some yes no doubt, but for most of us not likely.

With prices going up is anyone taking their 911 to the grocery store or to pick up the kids still?
My 86 Turbo Look is getting completely restored and when its done it will never be parked in a Vons parking lot, making runs to the post office or used as a taxi for school kids or raced on a race track, never again.
Those days are over.

I agree the 911 was once all those things, "versatile, reliable, and affordable".
At these prices now its just a reliable underpowered overpriced sports car.
Seems in the under 300hp bracket some of the Alfa prices are a deal compared to the 911s...

If performance is important you should try my perspective, a 700hp dog ring transmission IMSA race car for the same price.
Correct I'm not going to be taking that one to the post office either.

You're not a 964 owner so you're making unfair comparisons here, Mike. You're still thinking in terms of 69-73 and 84-89. We're talking about The Forgotten Porsches, and in that respect I think you're mistaken with your assertions.

The bottom line, though, is that there is really no good reason not to use these cars (964s and 993s) every day. They have all the modern safety devices of current cars (airbags, retractable belts, ABS, and sometimes AWD) with loads of style and soul to boot. Think about comparable cars in the 964's price range and you end up with Honda, Toyota, Lexus, budget BMW, budget Mercedes, etc.

None of those cars can match the all-purpose nature of the 911 right out of the box AND give you super low vehicle registration rates with so much style and class. Of course, I'm drinking the 964 Kool-Aid by the bucket, but I'm not too far off in my assessments, I would think.

I mean, seriously, take a $30K 964 and a $30K other brand car (from ANY era) and the 964 is the clear winner to me. I would rather drive a 1990 964 than a 2014 Honda anything.

So the 964 is STILL an affordable choice. The 964 is STILL the best bang for your buck in the used performance car marketplace while offering the very real possibility of a return on your investment (and, yes, I'm accounting for the plastic fantastic Corvette whose build quality was never quite as good as a car made of steel).

And for those people out there who are spending ridiculous money on RS Amercias, well, I think you're crazy. To me an RSA will NEVER be my first choice in the 964 range. But that's because I love the power steering and leather interior of the standard cars. There's just not enough of a difference between the RSA and the standard cars for me to be able to justify the price premiums. That said, however, the Speedster was also a stripper model and look at the price premiums of those cars versus their standard brethren of the same era ... so the RSA buyers 5-10 years ago, the ones who held the cars instead of flipping them, are sitting pretty right about now. But it's not something I agree with by any stretch.

Oh, and I'm so very sorry to hear that your M491 car is now worth so much that the cost to restore it has finally made financial sense.

[Frank Beck]

With prices going up is anyone taking their 911 to the grocery store or to pick up the kids still?
My 86 Turbo Look is getting completely restored and when its done it will never be parked in a Vons parking lot, making runs to the post office or used as a taxi for school kids or raced on a race track, never again.
Those days are over.

This is your prerogative but many (most?) in this community don't share your feelings. What's the point of owning a car if you can't use it up? Your car owns you instead of the other way around.

This is my '94 widebody; one of 250. Fresh paint and a fresh topend rebuild won't keep me from using it exactly the way the good Dr intended which is to drive the snot out of it.

[Gburner]

This is your prerogative but many (most?) in this community don't share your feelings. What's the point of owning a car if you can't use it up? Your car owns you instead of the other way around.

This is my '94 widebody; one of 250. Fresh paint and a fresh topend rebuild won't keep me from using it exactly the way the good Dr intended which is to drive the snot out of it.

Great looking 964 Frank.
Putting me on the preservation side of the fence is an angle new to me.
My restored 911 will become a cars and coffee regular.
It does not own me (yet), I'm still the master of my domain.
http://youtu.be/oi68hPMinAI

[Type911]

I bought mine to drive...and un-less it's snowing I drive it everywhere. The kids love being taken to school in HK (Herr Kommandant), it goes to the grocery store (an end parking spot does fine) and it even get's parked Downtown amongst the tourists and motorhomes.

Just got back from a 95 mile round-trip breakfast run over 3 mountain passes with my friend Jim.
Headed into town now in HK....need to check my box at the Post Office

[Gburner]

Headed into town now in HK....need to check my box at the Post Office

Careful the post office is more dangerous than the race track!
Drove my 911 to work (secure lot) for half my career too.
During my 50k miles of use and parking lots 3 of the 4 turbo flares had been dented...
Then walking out of the post office I was just in time to watch a nice blue haired lady scrape her car against my only unblemished fender.
Too many non car people driving disposable cars in public parking lots for my pride and joy.

[Frank Beck]

I'm envious. It was 105 here yesterday and turning chilly tonight (85) because of rain.

A nice run through the San Juans or Rockies would be just the prescription I could use right now.

or this always works too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyV2cPLuFuA

[letsrollbabe]

This is your prerogative but many (most?) in this community don't share your feelings. What's the point of owning a car if you can't use it up? Your car owns you instead of the other way around.

This is my '94 widebody; one of 250. Fresh paint and a fresh topend rebuild won't keep me from using it exactly the way the good Dr intended which is to drive the snot out of it.

I like your ride, Frank. I came close to buying one in that color about a year ago...I have always liked the widebodies...and this is one of the very best.