What makes an S an S?

[NV Stig]

I asked the guy who did the resto on mine this question, marketing aside, and a 30 HP increase, what made my 69S a desirable car compared to a T or an E. Especially when a race car guy of the era, or an R Gruppe guy today can make some mods that will wipe the floor with an S today.
He pointed out that this was the mad professor's (Ferry's) image of what a street legal race car should be. Our opinions aside, this is what Professor Porsche thought was the pinnacle of engineering at the time. My resto guy really had a soft spot for the 67S and the 69S in particular. Cars that were made one model of with designs specific to them. The 69S is the last 2 liter S made and the only one in the LWB. The MFI was another thing that made it unique. The idea of the magnesium engine case to shed weight which turned out to be a real headache later if you got cracks in it. All those ideas we can look back in hindsight and say that was a good or bad idea, but the Porsche gang was looking at in real time saying "zees ees ze vay it must be done mein freund"
Compund that though as a piece of history with the fact there is a scarcity issue today. How many survived, what shape is it in now, etc.

I'm trying to take the classic Porsche emotion out of the equation with this example. My daily driver is a BMW 335xi, it makes sense having the AWD in the region where I live. It is my go big go stupid car to date. If I didn't live in the snow I would have gotten the M3, Bimmer's version of the S. Now, I've chipped it, thrown a SS catback on it, Stuffed in a cold air intake and put in a Stage 3 suspension kit in it. It goes like a champ, and grips an rips with the best of them on the road. But it will never be an M3 in anyone else's eyes, despite what I do to it. Even if it will beat one, it will never be an M3. Same reason a T or an E wont be an S, even if they are modified.

[M491]

So I hate to say it, but it still isn't clear what makes an S and S. It can't be the way these cars were equipped by the factory because we've seen cars that have nothing left of what they left the factory with, including long hoods in some cases. At the same time, cars like my 1972 , numbers matching 911T, which has absolutely everything 1972 911S cars left the factory with (except for VIN), is valued at nothing near a true 911S. My car even have the 7200 RPM tachometer. Actually, since I decided to use 911E cams (but have OEM S cams on the shelf) I have a 911E tach in the dash right now and the 911S tach on the shelf. The engine in my car was a T engine, but it was rebuilt to complete 2.4 S specs, to include the original 2.4 S Mahle pistons and cylinders, heads, MFI stacks and manifolds, etc.

To go back to the original question, what makes an S and S? Is it just mojo? We've determined it is not originality that makes an S an S, because a car that has nothing original left other than the VIN is still valued as a "true S", while my car that has everything that the "true S left the factory with, other than the S VIN, is not valued the same. Even with an original S drivetrain. Interesting, but inconsistent!

[Aldo]

To BE a 911S it must be BORN an S. Anything else, no matter
how well done, is a copy, and it's value has to reflect that.

[M491]

I don't disagree with this philosophy. I think it all boils down to the mojo of cars that left the factory as Esses. No other car, no matter what it has, can be an S. I guess that's the answer...

A similar question has arisen for other cars. For example, in my garage, I have a completely original, rust free Sunbeam Tiger "survivor". This car even still has it's original paint (for the most part). For anyone who does not know, this car was a Shelby creation, born one year after the AC Cobra. It followed the same formula of the Cobra by taking a small and light British sports car chassis and shoehorning a huge American (Ford 260 and 289) engine into it. Chrysler soon bought the British company, could not stomach selling cars with Ford engines in them (they tried to fit a small block Chrysler engine in but with the distributor behind the intake, it would not fit), and killed the production after less than three years.

The original platform for the Tiger was the Sunbeam Alpine, which is readily available for a reasonable price. Ford 260 and 289 engines are available all day long, as are the Ford transmissions and rear axles. With the price of original Tigers skyrocketing (their considered the "next Cobra"), there are lots of "artistes" out there trying to make counterfeit Tigers out of Alpines. With the VIN riveted on the cowling, it's all too easy to fake a Tiger. These fakes are known by some as "Algers". Even if those Algers can look and act the same as a Tiger in just about every way, they will never be Tigers and will be valued as replicas. There is a registry, with the original factory ledgers, to track the whereabouts and disposition of every Tiger that left the factory to safeguard the integrity of the Tiger. The ledgers also have the serial numbers of the original equipment with which the cars left the factory. Real cars are often authenticated by three-man teams, as mine was.

I wonder if anyone has considered such an effort for the 911S. I'd be interested.

[72targa]

To BE a 911S it must be BORN an S. Anything else, no matter
how well done, is a copy, and it's value has to reflect that.

+1

An S is and S. A T isn't. An E isn't. They are both great cars. But an S is an S.

[jloucks388]

An RS is an RS...

[72targa]

Do be do be do...

[Cliff]

It`s the Driver!