Porsche un-offical Rennen models

[Original Poster]

Original post................

[davep]

This could be VERY interesting.

[peekaboo]

Continued fro the 1968 901/30 engined car thread :


1969 Tour de France / liste des engage / from a 1969 issue of Echappement (a french racing report publication. Echappement = Exhaust) . They were hooked into the race scene deep (especially in France) and I can garrantee you. Their liste is just the organisers list transcribed for their publication :

Groupes 2 et 5

Tourisme / Tourisme Spéciale

Classe 1601 à 2000

(five 911's listed in this combined group 2 & 5 / this engine size class)


Of the four group 5 cars , one group 2 . Only the J-P. Gaban entry has a model number noted . Do you really think they did not know which model it was ? So either these four entrants were being purposefully neglectfull in noting a model. Or these were 1967 cars. Normal models) :

No. / entrant / drivers

81 (same as drivers) Pierre Portier - Joseph Bourdon Porsche 911 Gr. 5 1991cc

82 (same as Drivers) Jean Sage - Michel Viollet Porsche 911 Gr. 5 1991cc

83 (same as Drivers) Jean Lemaitre - Henry Cherruy Porsche 911 Gr. 2 1991cc

84 Sonauto-BP Guy Chasseuil - Christian Baron Porsche 911 Gr. 5 1991cc

85 J-P. Gaban Hugues De Fierlant - Christian Delferrier Porsche 911S Gr. 5 1991cc


All the group 3 entered Porsche 911's , and even the two group 6 (911R ) entries : Larrouse - Gelin & Mazzia - Bodin. All have a specific 911 model type designated.


Here's a photo of the Chasseuil / Sonauto No. 84 (this particular photo does not show the door qtr. windows well. But I have another that does. And this is a 1968 or earlier car with door wing windows):

[HughH]

I have always wondered exactly what the Sonauto car #84 was. I have my suspicion that it might be a T/R, maybe with a 906 engine or something similar, but with Sonauto as a favored recipient of ex werks cars and close contact with the race department and Guy Chasseuil being in a similar position the car really could have been anything that they could get away with.

I agree with Bantam's observation on another post that it is fraught even relying on the official race entry or results lists as mostly they are only a compilation of what was on the entry forms and it is not clear if they were filled out properly by the entrants.

It is clear that the cars entry class can give some guidance but it is only that - it wont tell you precisely what the car was specified as but will say that the car was (probably) legal for that class. In the case of 911's in Group 5 that leaves a lot of wriggle room .

Given that car #84 came third in the 1969 TdF, and first in its class (Group 5 - Special Touring 2000) it seems to have been a potent car, given that there were 3 over 2000 group 6 cars, 10 under 2000 group 6 cars and 4 over 2000 group 5 cars along with the 9 under 2000 group 5 cars.

Here are some more photos of the car from different angles, including a rear shot from another event. However they really don't help me in identifying what it really is.

and for those who want a closer look at the door handle to get a clue on identity I have added a close up

[Rennman]

It sure looks like a TR but if you look close in the pictures the headliner material is ivory where the T Rally typically had black perlon. It is hard to see if there is a passenger sunvisor but that would be another tell. The second picture of the rear sure has the right flares with the sectioned and widened steel bumpers. That looks "right" to be a "TR". The 3rd picture looks modern with later type 7s and later aftermarket race seats and different stretched out rear fenders for the modern 7s. Do you know that to be the actual car? The photo looks from the 80s or 90s so if it is it should still be alive. I know the Hart Ski "TR" was built up from a standard T. I wonder if this is the same deal. Can you zoom in on the rocker to see if there is an absence of lead fill. Some "TR"s had it some did not. While on the note of Ts I have a 68T that was special ordered and campaigned by Edmond Fitzgerald of Germany if anyone has any info. Thanks.

Don

[HughH]

Hi Don

The third photo is definitely much more modern. i don't know for sure that it is the same car but even if it was it would not be surprising if modifications had happened over time.
i will see if i can get any better close ups of the rocker and other features from a period picture.
apart from the 69 TdF i have photos of it (or a similar car with the same registration plates and similar ownership) at a couple of other events

at least one shows no sunvisor on passenger side. will post picture shortly

here are a couple of pictures that suggest no passenger visor. cant find any to blow up to show rocker detail

[Milou]

I have read in a French magazine (retro-course I think) a few years ago an interesting article about this car.

The dealership Sonauto actually used a second hand car they had for sale and sent it to the factory to be prepared for racing.

A few years ago, the car was eventually restored outside of Paris and the chassis number had to be transferred on to a new shell as it was too damaged to be restored. The car is now in the Coll collection but clearly very few parts are still original.

[Rennman]

The photos makes sense then. Factory type TR flares, Factory rollbar ect. At least the chassis number is original!! Thanks.

Don

[peekaboo]

I have read in a French magazine (retro-course I think) a few years ago an interesting article about this car.

The dealership Sonauto actually used a second hand car they had for sale and sent it to the factory to be prepared for racing.

A few years ago, the car was eventually restored outside of Paris and the chassis number had to be transferred on to a new shell as it was too damaged to be restored. The car is now in the Coll collection but clearly very few parts are still original.

That's too bad to hear about. The owners should have sent it to Alan.uk , from what he did with that silver car. I would have bet that he could have saved a good amount of it.

PS - from looking at that photo of the door handle , that Hugh enlarged. I would bet if you used a re-focus program on it (like Magic Focus , which I do not have) , you would see that it is a 1967 and earlier door handle. There seems to be something black under the key cyl. / push button end, giving the illusion that it is a 1968 door handle. But the grab seems too thin to me for a 1968 handle. But that is just what my eye is seeing. Don't hold me to it. A refocused version of would show.

A 1967 or earlier body makes sense for the entry list also. As obviously , in those years were cars that the model WAS just '911' .

If someone has that article , maybe it tells what the base car was. Or even better a VIN.

[Rennman]

You could be right. The interior rearview mirror looks like the black plastic 68 version but I think that is just the picture. It looks like the longer 67 and earlier stem so it could very well be a 67 car. I agree anything can be saved today. There are skilled enough artisans who can save a tub rather than cutting and pasting a chassis#.

Don