Porsche un-offical Rennen models

[naparsei]

Interesting. If a US based racer ordered a "factory race car" for 1968, which model would he receive? Would it be a T/R? And if so, would that then be a 911L ROW serial number or a "T" serial number?

[naparsei]

Raj,
I understand. It does seem most 1968 cars delivered to racers in the US were 911Ls though.
Alex

[naparsei]

Raj,
I will look through my records but my guess from my office desk is that most of the 911s raced were street cars converted to race cars. However, if someone called up Porsche and said "I am going to race U2 Trans Am" what they got was a 1968L. Of course, the cars weren't eligible in 1966, or 1970+, so you only have a 3 year window for 911s in that series. Obviously, there are a few exceptions, such as Bruce Jennings. But I am pretty sure even he ran a '68L for a while.
Let's keep the debate alive and see. Part of the problem with T/A is that so many cars entered, and they often changed numbers from race to race so it's hard to know which car is which. Even paint changed a lot; for example, Bob Bailey ran a white/stripe and burgandy in 1968, on the same car.
Alex

[naparsei]

To clarify, I don't disagree that the 68 911L probably wasn't the most common 911 raced. I am saying that of factory ordered race cars, most were '68Ls. I am not sure, but I will guess (again, my notes are home, and I don't have the recall a lot of people who post here do) that zero factory ordered race cars competed in 1967. Probably some were ordered from the factory with certain options optimized for racing, and more were probably converted from what was available on the street, but there were no "factory race cars in a box". I am not all sure about 1969, but a lot of 1968s ran in 1969, including the 1st in class, 4th OA @ Daytona 24 hours.

[naparsei]

There were 6 911Ls sold to race in Trans Am, so that's not a huge number.

[Rennman]

Where did you get the number of 6 cars to the USA for TA? I always thought the number of 15 was high and 6 more like it. Jennings, Baily, Kelly, Wetenson, Pike, and Baker that's 6 TA cars. out of these 6, 5 exist. Wetensons car being reported destroyed. I still hope that it will be found though. I am sure there may be more factory Ls. The factory cars were Ls and T Rallies if you called in 68. Another way to look at this why would Porsche produce a heavy fully trimmed S for racing? The T Rally Kit was the answer. S mechanicals with a stripped light "T" Body which if you stripped any other model including an S would be the same car. The "TR" in essence and mechanically was a lightweight S with a "T" vin#. It was the same formula in the "ST" era, S mechanicals with a stripped "T" body only now the vin was for an S. The "ST" was a direct evolution of the "TR" just more of everything but basically trimmed the same, even the door panels. There were even narrow body "ST"s as there were unflared narrow "TR"s. The L TA cars were trimmed as a street Euro T less undercoat and sound pads but with full dash, door and interior trim as a standard car. I sure this was done for B production rules. John Kelly's widow told be how John was dissapointed the car was not more lightweight and how his car came with steel wheels! These guys ordered these cars blind and really did not know exactly how they would come. Don Pike remembers how fast his car was winning an incredible 46 of 48 races in 69! Hard to believe. I am still waiting for him to list the race history for me though I have found some of it online.

Don

[LongRanger]

. . . It was the same formula in the "ST" era, S mechanicals with a stripped "T" body only now the vin was for an S. The "ST" was a direct evolution of the "TR" just more of everything but basically trimmed the same, even the door panels. There were even narrow body "ST"s . . .

Here are some fascinating period photos of what appears to be some sort of factory stripper, posted here previously by CurtisA. Vehicle looks to be a LWB car, with virtually all external trim deleted, and with the unfinished rocker seams mentioned earlier. It doesn't have any of the flares or bumper addenda seen on the earlier SWB T/Rs. And, without even head restraints on the seats, it would appear to pre-date the S/Ts. Also, from the looks of the wipers and type of exhaust fitted, this appears to be a road-legal model.

What is this?

Rick Kreiskott

[Rennman]

It is the base S or "ST" Looks like a factory photo that has been in alot of books.

Don

[Soterik]

I just wanted to point out that in 1968 it was easy for a person to order and pickup a car through someone like my dad's business and be able to buy any Euro spec car. The US had an import program at that time that allowed was called an "individual entry" and the car would only have to meet US DOT not EPA rules. So we had them converted in Holland before they were shipped here. Many times the cars were converted back to euro spec lighting by the owner with the original parts which were placed in the car or shipped back as freight.

I'll be in my office tomorrow and I'll scan and post my dad's 1968 price list with options for 1968, it's pretty interesting.

Eric

[Xavier PJB]

There were 6 911Ls sold to race in Trans Am, so that's not a huge number.

Do you have the 4 missing Vin numbers ?
I've got :
Herb Wetanson - 11810429
Tony Adamowicz - 11810486
Bob Bailey ?
?
?
Thanks

Xavier