Italian delivery 73 T

[70SATMan]

I saw an ad for a 73 T that was advertized as Italian delivery. Here is the question. The ad states that the car was FACTORY delivered with Webbers.

So.....Was this standard for Italian 73 delivery? I don't recall ever reading this. Seems odd to me since MFI was available from 72 on til the 2.4 CIS.

Anyone know?

[edmayo]

Hi Mr. Satman, Euro delivered 72-73T's came with Zenith carbs, same as used on U.S. 70-71 T's. Now maybe this is one of those anomalies where Webers were used, or maybe to an average bloke carbs is carbs, and Webers are more commonly known than Zeniths. Sort of like all facial tissue are Kleenex.

[steve shea]

I think this is the 911TV. I have seen a few of these and they seem to be rare indeed. A friend has a 73'TV targa which came from the factory with webers, on the 73' row timing decal the TV is clearly listed. I think the V stands for vergasser/carburetor. In one model list/chassis# list I have seen it states the TV came with webers, no mention of any other carbs.

[70SATMan]

Thanks Guys, I never picked up on this apparantly. Was there a reason for keeping the carbs on ROW? Maybe trying to keep the base model price down? It just seems odd since we had MFI across the board in 72/73.

[vipergruen]

The standard for 72-73T ROW cars was the 911/57 "vergaser" engine, the carburetors being from Zenith.
I think that it's possible that a few cars were modified by the italian importer with Weber carburetors, I've been told that the car that used to belong to an italian actor has on the documents "911T-S" and has always been on Webers, but documentation on this is very scarce.
In the same years, there was a version of the VW Beetle that was modified to Webers for the italian market as well.

Andrea

[boxster03]

Most Excellent thread

I would love to see how the Concours judges would handle this.

[Harvey Weidman]

You are right. ROW 2.4 Ts had Zeniths. We frequently used the 2.4 specs to make the 2.2Ts run a little better.
USA got the MFI as an upgrade. We were told it was a feeble attempt to help pass smog.
I have never seen a parts reference to factory Webers on a 2.4. Although it was popular to put them on when the MFI failed ...and they did pass smog easier with Webers.
As mentioned, other translations may use Webers and carbs interchangeably.
Most of the judges that I know are aware of ROW models.
H

[210bhp]

Don't forget this was only on the T. Row E and S did of course have MFI in 72/73, but you knew that.

Regards
Mike

[70SATMan]

Don't forget this was only on the T. Row E and S did of course have MFI in 72/73, but you knew that.

Regards
Mike

So, I went and brushed up on my "Morgan"

This still puzzles me about the 72/73 model years. 69-71 makes sense to me as an upgrade in performance with the E/S MFI over the carb'd T in all markets.

For 72 I also can see how the the MFI on the US T might be needed to make smog.
Yet, with the US having the stricter smog requirements we ended up with a better performing 72/73 T than the rest of the world since we had the MFI/CIS.

Usually with our stricter requirements we end up with decreased performance in this area. One for the AWAY team!

From a production standpoint it would have made sense using MFI across the board unless they were still trying to lure the European buyers into the MFI cars as a bid to increase the bottom line. I mean If I had been a European buyer and seeing US Ts with better performance than what was comparably available in my market, I know I would have stepped up to the E at a minimum.

Production of the 72T is reported as 3486 units ROW and 4752 units US

For 73 the T production is reported as 3416 units ROW and 5249 units US with 3246 of those being CIS. So, why go to the trouble of changing mid stream to CIS only in the US market when you already knew that the 2.7 was going to be CIS across the models and markets (except the ROW Carrera)?

What was the point in keeping Carb'd Ts in the ROW market for 73?

Must have driven the Europeans crazy without bringing up how our safety regs basically drove the mid year model bumper changes.

So, the affect on value....We absolutely love Euro versions of our early cars. We put in Vaterland gauges, drool over orange stitching in seat belts, etc.

So, on the one hand you have a unique Euro delivery 72 or 73 T knowing full well that the performance doesn't stack up to our FI versions. MFI parts tend to be more valuable than Carbs as a complete injection system. Is the value difference between the two a wash or does the Euro factor put it over the top anyway. How do y'all rate the values in comparison? No need to discuss the Es or Esses. Strictly the T's with comparable conditions.

[edmayo]

Michael, as with most production decisions I'm sure cost factored in there someplace. As to relative values now I'm sure the overall condition of the car matters more than whether it is a ROW carbs or U.S.A. MFI As a footnote, back in the roaring seventies a military customer brought home a 72 ROW with the carbs. In order to get USA legal we had to install an MFI engine for him, (and some other changes) Then they gave him their blessing. We were allowed to retain the "illegal" engine, which eventually found its way into another car,,,,go figure!