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Thread: To rebuild or not...

  1. #1

    To rebuild or not...

    Thought I would bring this up on a new thread.

    With the discussion about whether the cars destroyed in the fire should be rebuilt or not. Cutting Vin #'s out can be done and put into a new chassis, it's been done for years on race cars. And what does that do to the historical record or value of the car? There are early 911 cars that have had the same thing done to them because of rust, and have sold for high dollar amounts. What's real and what's not. I guess it's really up to the owner to decide.

    What do you guys think?

    John
    1965 911 #301111, Red Book Vol 1 "Cover Car," owned 48 years.
    1967 911 #307347, bare-bones, some road wear, a little surface rust, and a few dents..., owned 8 years.
    1970 914/6GT, http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/image/68715183, (Sold - ran the last three Rennsports)owned 30 years.


    Photography Site: JohnStraubImageWorks.com

    Pushin' back the hands of time, "Along For The Ride" at, http://www.johnstraub.blogspot.com

    Registry #983
    R Gruppe #741

  2. #2
    My buddy did this with a Sunbeam Tiger. The body was rotten so he found a rust free Sunbeam Alpine in California and had it shipped. He transferred the VIN and everything else and didn't really think anything of it. Unfortunately some Tiger owners started calling fraud, much to his dismay, several years after the car was sold and his "fraud" Tiger was featured in one of their club magazines. I don't know what you 911 owners are like but the Tiger crowd seems to really dislike this sort of thing. Apparently there are some very minor differences between between the Tiger and Alpine bodies that can only really be picked out by those in the know, although its very easy to pass off a converted Alpine to a typical buyer. Like I said, I don't know what is acceptable with the 911 crowd, but with the prices rising and the buy/flip mentality we're seeing in the 911 market lately anybody buying one of those cars would probably want to know the history behind it and that they're getting a resurrected car and not the original.

    And to be honest - how can you possibly possibly resurrect a Speedster, RS and RSR unless you can find another of the same?
    Last edited by BritishCarGuy; 08-01-2014 at 02:53 PM.

  3. #3
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    . . . Over the Rainbow

    Quote Originally Posted by BritishCarGuy View Post
    . . . And to be honest - how can you possibly possibly resurrect a Speedster, RS and RSR unless you can find another of the same? . . .
    It's only metal, Citizens. And --- as we've seen numerous times --- like here . . .
    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-of-a-RHD-2-2S

    . . . metal can be cut, shaped, welded . . . and replaced


    That RSR 'll come back, too. Not the same --- but, like a lotta other 'restored' cars . . . all those award-winning Cobras + Carreras + Ferraris --- any trace of damage/decay/imperfection . . . along w/ with every molecule of original paint, every scrap of first upholstery, yadda-yadda-yadda . . .

    . . . EXPUNGED

    And, yet? --- there they are . . . totally/completely/utterly restored-beyond-recognition . . . re-animated replicas of themselves! . . . even better than the Real Thing . . .

    . . . some of 'em several times, even

    And proudly so

    '. . . award winning . . .'

    I believe it's called --- wait for it . . . . . . . . . . . . restoration

    Besides --- fire-damage didn't hurt this Ferrari's sale . . .
    http://autoweek.com/article/car-life...ing-co-auction

    The only question regarding any 'project' is ---- who's gonna step up?


    I mean really --- what do you think happened to all those poor-poor little Ventura Speedsters?
    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...=ventura+wreck

    Scrapped?

    Cut-up?

    Disposed of?

    Burial at sea, maybe?


    Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii don't think so

    For what they're worth 'done'? . . . cheap to fix. Great Story, too

    . . . 'barns,' 'lake bottoms' . . . . 'damaged by fire' . . . . . . . . now 'brought back' . . .



    My guess is? . . . . they're ALL still out there --- somewhere . . .
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    Last edited by LongRanger; 08-02-2014 at 06:18 AM.

  4. #4
    Has any one seen the car in detail,it may not need the vin welding in something else.Why assume this at this stage,i have seen cars a lot worse than this restored.its deff worth doing if nothing more than keeping the original tub alive and on the road where it belongs.
    The porsche community can not afford to loose such special cars as this.I for one would not be afraid to tackle it as a great historic racer once again,the only problem is the expense of getting the car back to any where near its former glory,and sadly it will never be what it was.

  5. #5
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    Any number of cars are restored around the chassis plate. Last year I looked at a Lola T70 at Amelia. I had a Lola expert look at the car for me. His report was that " the chassis plate is an original."

    btw - The FIA no longer certifies the provenance of the car. They simply say that it conforms to the FIA standards for that model year. Here's an explanation.

    Richard Newton
    Tech Stuff

  6. #6
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    Olde Threade Alerte



    Quote Originally Posted by BritishCarGuy View Post
    . . . how can you possibly possibly resurrect a Speedster, RS and RSR unless you can find another of the same? . . .
    Sure ya can! All it takes? . . .

    . . . is money + determination . . . aaaaand a little help from die Faktory

    . . . like with this one . . .

    VIN = 9112300538
    Eng# = 6622022
    Trans# = ?
    Prod# = 1022592

    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...t-classic-quot





    ..................
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  7. #7
    The question of how can a "gone" car be resurrected without providing a donor chassis is simple, you can't cut a corner, you have to actually do the work with what you have. Sure, it's the hard road, but the respected one. When they found 550-0001 it was a whisper of itself, but it was painstakingly restored, inch by inch. You can see all the pics on my blog:
    https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/...-giant-killer/

    ---Adam
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  8. #8
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc View Post
    . . . When they found 550-0001 it was a whisper of itself, but it was painstakingly restored, inch by inch . . .
    I have a LOT of respect for the people who do things like this --- the time + effort + treasure brought to bear here boggle . . .

    . . . BUT . . .



    . . . this is nothing that came from Zuffenhausen . . . or Weissach . . .

    . . . let alone Germany


    Dunno what to call something like this --- this is the thing Collier quarter-backed, isn't it?


    'Resurrection,' maybe? . . .

    . . . or 're-imagination'? . . .


    . . . but --- IMO . . . . . never Porsche



    ......
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LongRanger View Post
    I have a LOT of respect for the people who do things like this --- the time + effort + treasure brought to bear here boggle . . .

    . . . BUT . . .



    . . . this is nothing that came from Zuffenhausen . . . or Weissach . . .

    . . . let alone Germany


    Dunno what to call something like this --- this is the thing Collier quarter-backed, isn't it?


    'Resurrection,' maybe? . . .

    . . . or 're-imagination'? . . .


    . . . but --- IMO . . . . . never Porsche



    ......
    Well, in the end there is only one 550-0001, and this car is and was it. That can't be argued. The rest is sideline half-speak of the philosophy of it all, which can be argued forever.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member NZVW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc View Post
    Well, in the end there is only one 550-0001, and this car is and was it. That can't be argued. The rest is sideline half-speak of the philosophy of it all, which can be argued forever.
    My name is Mark, serial # 12121963.
    Beaten up, bruised. Raced and rolled frequently. Right rear lower suspension has been replaced as has the top left steering arm joint. Headlights are original but a bit on the dim side. original engine that is matching numbered to the chassis, gearbox has a bit of a whine in 4th. Reverse pops out under too much load and the dip stick has been well used that indicates a certain level of maintenance.
    Electrics some times blow the odd fuse but heavier load fuses seem to be ok at present. Paint job is what is now called "sought after ""patina"".

    Gee, they put pig heart valves in us humans but that dosn't make us worthy of living in a sty.

    Long live those that have the time, patience and resilience to "resurrect" old cars (of any make), and lets hope they allow us to call ourselves ME when we need the same doing to US.
    Mark

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