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Thread: difficult time turning engine over on start up

  1. #1
    Senior Member drwhosc's Avatar
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    difficult time turning engine over on start up

    I have a 71E. Recently the starter seemed to be dragging. I would turn the key, the engine would turn then it would kind of drag, stop then turn over again. OK, I thought starter is going. I replaced the starter, and same issue. OK I thought batteries are going, I replaced both batteries, and I still have the same behavior. I now think bad ground. I replace the ground strap from transmission to chassis. Still have the same behavior. So now I am thinking, not an easy fix and I a, going to see if anyone has any ideas.

    The car does eventually start. Mainly because of my OCD, and when it runs, it runs great. Or at least it runs as it always has. Idle is smooth, and throttle response is great. The problem is only when I have to spin the engine with the starter motor.

    I am wondering if I have some binding in the engine, or high compression. I can hear something akin to exhaling when I let of the dragging starter. Also the new motor now will just click and not turn at all sometimes.
    Any ideas, and any suggestions on what I can look at to help figure this issue out… Thanks
    -----

    71 911E RS Clone (Analog)
    88 928 S4 (V8 Trans Axle)
    99 996 (Daily Beater)

    Early S Registry # 1278

  2. #2
    Did you have any other engine work done just before this started happening?
    1971 911S, 2.7RS spec MFI engine, suspension mods, lightened
    Early 911S Registry Member #425

  3. #3
    i just finished my rebuild.
    while turning the engine over to build oil pressure, my starter was slow, with the plugs in even slower.
    i wasn't confident about the prolonged starter use necessary for a first start situation.
    i bit the bullet and installed a high torque version, what a difference!
    And that puppy started like a champ!
    bob moglia
    '72 E sunroof coupe

  4. #4
    Senior Member drwhosc's Avatar
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    no engine work, just started happening. Might need a high torque starter. Still worrined that will not do it. Also Probabally need to get the volt meter out. I have to have a volt drop somewhere...
    -----

    71 911E RS Clone (Analog)
    88 928 S4 (V8 Trans Axle)
    99 996 (Daily Beater)

    Early S Registry # 1278

  5. #5
    Senior Member Curt Hammill's Avatar
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    Connections to double check
    Check battery condition and charge
    Check ground wire between the battery and body
    Check the ground post,
    Check the power lead and post
    If the post clamp is not an integral part of the wire you should check the wire to clamp connections
    Check the ground wire from the chassis to the trans under the car
    Check power lead on starter

    side note:
    Battery can read ~12 volts but you are needing amps to crank the engine bad connections will rob cranking amps and show up as heat between the bad connection.

    Also push the clutch in before cranking

    Check that the trans to engine bolts Are tight

    What did the bendix drive gear look like on the started that was removed?

    Was the fly wheel gear ok ?

    Do you have Metal to metal grinding while cranking?
    Last edited by Curt Hammill; 09-25-2011 at 06:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Take a pair of HIGH QUALITY jumper cables and connect together, then put one clamp on the lower starter bolt and clamp the other end directly to the battery ground post. That will by-pass all other grounds, if it improves then you have a ground problem. With a volt meter check from battery positive post to ground post, should read battery voltage (that will be what you get when you hook the voltmeter from battery hot post to battery ground post) Now disconnect battery positive cable from starter solenoid (disconnect ground from battery first to avoid sparks) Hook voltmeter to positive cable at starter that you disconnected and other end to ground (hook battery ground back up for this) You should read battery voltage or up to 1/2 a volt lower, any less and you have a positive cable problem. Remember, most problems are at the cable ends, not the cable it self, and you can't tell buy looking at them, you must use the volt and/or ohmmeter.
    Early S Registry member #90
    R Gruppe member #138
    Fort Worth Tx.

  7. #7
    Senior Member drwhosc's Avatar
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    Ok Did all of the checking this AM. I checked the batteries, and they have 12.33V Battery to Ground 12.33V. Hot terminal on starter to ground. 12.33V So no voltage drop. Did the ground jumper, no imporvement.

    Still very difficult to turn when cold. Will turn over when hot and fire right up, but may times all I get is a soleniod click on the new starter motor. Not sure the new motor is what I want. At least the old one never gave me a solenoid click.

    Again engine runs great after it is turned over. I guess my big concern is that something in the engine is failing, and this is a symptom of that. Is this a valid concern, or is this issue just limited to the starter and its electrical circut?

    thanks
    -----

    71 911E RS Clone (Analog)
    88 928 S4 (V8 Trans Axle)
    99 996 (Daily Beater)

    Early S Registry # 1278

  8. #8
    Senior Member drwhosc's Avatar
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    I just discovered that I have an axuillary starter relay. At least I do on the electrical diagram. I am guessing that is in the electrical pannel in the engine compartment. Also what does the temperature time switch do it is in the key circut as well...
    -----

    71 911E RS Clone (Analog)
    88 928 S4 (V8 Trans Axle)
    99 996 (Daily Beater)

    Early S Registry # 1278

  9. #9
    If the thing turns over slow I would say fuses/cables/terminals/battery problem. If it turns over but is reluctant to start I would say something needs to be changed on whatever cold start system you have.
    1971 911S, 2.7RS spec MFI engine, suspension mods, lightened
    Early 911S Registry Member #425

  10. #10
    Senior Member Curt Hammill's Avatar
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    If you are concerned you could change your oil, draning the oil in a clean contaner. I alway change my oil hot, and then look for metal in the oil

    Was the new starter a rebuilt unit? Or a good used starter? Or oem new starter?

    Is the temperature outside 15 deg. ?

    What weight oil is in your 911?
    Last edited by Curt Hammill; 09-25-2011 at 09:49 AM.

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