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Thread: New reproducton parts vs original

  1. #21
    So many questions, so few answers....
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    Where do you call it quits? Rebuilding/restoring a car is an open ended proposition in terms of time and money. Original vs reproduction is often determined by both time and money. Do you have the time to wait weeks and weeks to find the "original" or do your best to find a suitable alternative? I think this is perhaps what seperates one level of build from another. Did they go the extra mile to find the real deal or did they stay as true as possible given a set of limitations? Just be sure you know which you are trying to do and be honest when you represent the car down the road.
    Last edited by Sacto S; 10-24-2011 at 05:09 PM.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    1967 911S Coupe
    1991 944S2 Coupe

    Past projects:
    1967 912 Coupe
    1969 911T Coupe
    1985.5 944 SR Coupe

  2. #22
    Defender of the Normal John Fusco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacto S View Post
    be honest when you represent the car down the road.
    That's the bottom line for me.
    I want to drive my car - want it to look nice as well.
    Don't really care if it has original nuts and bolts - as Esso points out that is pretty near impossible to maintain.
    First for me is that it works and is safe - how many rubber bits are still up to snuff after 40 years ?
    Equally does it look right on the car - as close to can be found to the original. I have one of Erics muffler tips and it is so nice I keep it on my desk. I have an original tip on an original muffler with the usual dings but I will eventually put on the new one.
    Then cost - I will not spend $500.00 on an original badge, to me that's crazy money.

    My car runs great and I have been told looks pretty nice.
    This car is for me to have fun with, not stress over little bits that may or may not be correct.That may be fun for others and that's cool.
    I don't look at others cars wondering if they are all original ( unless it is in a museum or claimed as such for sale)

    I would be curious as to how many ORIGINAL original parts are on that very early car Ruf is restoring

    VERY INTERESTING TOPIC.

    Du must schwein haben

    901/05 #305701

    Bultaco Metralla 62 M8
    1968 BMW R69S

    Early911SReg #606

  3. #23
    Senior Member Harvey Weidman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia911S View Post
    Thank you for the additional information. I've read and reread this thread trying to take it all in and understand the terms. My learning curve is steep. I have an all original car that is a Parade Preservation winner. I know I need to keep it as original as possible. I need to gather lots of information before I make a decision or do anything to the car. It is a bit of a challenge ... it just takes a while for me to think it through. I take all of this very seriously.
    Be sure to read the preservation rules. They aren't supposed to take off points for replacement of "wear" items. That would include door seals, wipers, tires etc. Some are argued though.
    H

  4. #24
    Why Am I Here? CurtEgerer's Avatar
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    Maybe someday we'll have our own 500-page 'Year One' catalog and be able to sit in an armchair and order parts to assemble an entire new car. Then what.

    Year One Camaro.jpg

  5. #25
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    early911 004.jpgOk, just my 2 cents put in. Since I just went through this situation recently with replacing my "S" rocker trim on my '71 Targa, I had 3 ways to go: 1) have original trim redone by King of Trim $500 to $600. 2)Buy Stoddards genuine Porsche trim at $516. 3) Buy repro from Stoddards $152.
    Now I was referred to King of Trim by E. Mayo ( who I highly respect) but the $500 to $600 did not include shipping to CA and was just an estimate and seemed like a lot of money. The sales person at Stoddards was pushing me towards genuine but I opted for the reproduction parts and I am very happy with the fit and finish, Oh yeah! and the price. There were no part #'s on my original trim and I can not see any difference from my repro, the quality is very good. I did however keep my old seals which seemed to fit better, but the metal trim was very nice!! Here is a pic with the new trim.
    Mike Fitton # 2071
    2012 991 Platinum Silver
    1971 911T Targa Bahia Red
    1995 911 Carrera Polar Silver

    Arlington Hts., IL

  6. #26
    This is an interesting discussion so far, but there are so many variations based on the particular part being added. For example, the door on an early 911S seems to have been numbered as it went down the assembly line. I have heard various reasons for this but that is not relevant to this discussion. What is relevant is what to do in the event that the door needs to be replaced. If a 1968 911S door is replaced with with a 1968 912 door of excellent quality, what is the status of that car? Is it essentially original? But for the fact that the factory worker from the 912 assembly line arrived before the worker from the 911 line arrived at the pile of doors, the door on the 912 might have been on the 911S. I realize that this is further complicated by whether Karman or Porsche was running the assembly line. But essentially the repair is being made with a genuine Porsche part. If this is done during the restoration process rather than a repair process, it is fraudulent to stamp the last three numbers of the VIN on the 912 door. This is a step in the restoration process. Would you lose concours points if the number is not there?

    What if the door is dented and/or rusted and the restorer elects to re skin the door. This way the VIN stamp is still legally on the door but the door skin is new. Is this a remanufactured part? Is the car itself still original?

    As a retired lawyer, and being familiar with the Uniform Commercial Code, I would say the car is still "original". Unless a buyer asks question like "ever in an accident and if so what is repaired" the car is original. I am not aware of any legal standard that dictates how much of a car remains to be labeled original. I am not sure what the standard is in England, but Alan's restoration is just short of transferring a VIN plate from one car to another which is illegal in US. Beautiful restoration though! I understand only one State allows recreation of a title, but that is based on putting parts together. That is a body shell with a non matching engine, etc.

    Just curious and hope this discussion continues.
    Last edited by doigthom; 10-24-2011 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Sepia911S's Avatar
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    I tend to view cars in four classes or groups and cars can move between groups.

    Preservation,Conservation,Restoration,General use.
    What is the difference between preservation and conservation?
    Candyce
    '73 911S, #9113301365
    Early S Registry #2027

  8. #28
    Defender of the Normal John Fusco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CurtEgerer View Post
    Then what.
    Why then you stuff a 2.5, or 2.8, or 3.whatever in her and GO RACING !!!! Boogity Boo - oh never mind......

    Du must schwein haben

    901/05 #305701

    Bultaco Metralla 62 M8
    1968 BMW R69S

    Early911SReg #606

  9. #29
    Senior Member Harvey Weidman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepia911S View Post
    What is the difference between preservation and conservation?
    Preservation is usually referred to on this board as the concourse class. It literally means to "preserve what is there" and replace "wear" items-not to restore. There are rules if you show. But if you describe your car as a preservation car in general then that leaves some explaination.
    Conservation term that I have seen used was best described as "An arrested state of decay" not to repair or restore. Even that would require some explaination if one used it as a description.
    In My Humble Opinion....
    H

  10. #30
    Senior Member Sepia911S's Avatar
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    Thank you Harvey ... I appreciate your humble opinion! I will read the PCA Concours Rules. I should have read the rules last year. My car is in the preservation class ... it is a great car and in very good condition. I just want to keep it that way. I think concouring the car is the way to maintain it to a very high standard. I entered the 2010 Parade Concours because a PCA member told me I would learn all about my car ... and I sure did. I really need the judges to examine the car and note what needs to be improved. Then, I can move forward. The discussion and debate within this thread makes me think.

    It has been great fun showing and sharing the car. I have met so many wonderful people.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Candyce
    '73 911S, #9113301365
    Early S Registry #2027

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