Suspension improvements for SWB 911s

[LDunville]

I was orginally looking to change my 1968 911S Targa back to the stock suspension, but then I remembered about the "bad manners" of the SWB cars. I'm now wondering if there have been suspension improvements that make the car safer as well as a better handling car?

I don't want to race it, and I want to keep it as original as possible, but my wife loves the car too and I'm sure she will want to drive it. I don't want to hear that she or my son found themselves backwards on a tight highway on-ramp!

Any ideas on what I shoud get and where to get it?

Thanks

[oscillon]

My next suspension update is coming from these guys. They have a nice set of options from street+ to full race.

http://www.elephantracing.com/index.html

[Chris Pomares]

I just bought some suspension parts from Elephant. In my case I'm going with 911 SC torsion bars and elephant rubber bushings. It's being set up as a street/touring car. It might see a autocross now and then. My torsion bars on my 67 came 18mm front 23 mm rear and I'm going to 19/24. It's about a 18 or so percent increase in spring rate. I think in 68 they went to 22mm rear bars. It might have been because of the oversteer thing on 165mm tires. We've only put on the rear parts so far as I'm waiting on the front bushings. It has made a big difference already. Newer and somewhat wider tires seem to help with oversteer. I've got 195 front and 205 rears. If we go way to hot into a corner even with wider tires and a good suspension it probally won't be enough to overcome physics. And youth? I'm 60, and at 18 I got pulled over for going up Palos Verdes Blvd from PCH up almost to Palos Verdes (Southern, Ca. beach area) at 11pm in my Mom's 1969/70 ish Ford LTD with a 390 , rear drum brakes, and skinny probably bias ply tires. I was going 104 in a 35 MPH zone with the Police in tow clocking me! I was temporally insane. I recovered around 30. I had a relapse at 58 and started building my 912 POLO car.
Chris

[RSTarga]

The best updates are upgraded front ball joints and as much of newer suspension components as you can live with or will fit. I think cmpski has the right idea on wider tires for the rear, after all thats what the factory did.

[tomkirkcis]

+1 on the wheels and tires. Try good tires on wider rims before you do anything else. I fit 225/50 R compounds on 7R rims on all 4 corners of my 67 and it completely transformed the cars handling. It did not look period correct, but it made off ramps a whole new experience. I think R coumpounds on 6" rims should do it. You can always go further on suspension change if your not quite happy.

[savaden]

The first suspension improvement is restoring all of the bushings and bearings to like new or better. Elephant polybronze has a devout following as do other makes of upgrade bushings. The only downside to ER is slightly fiddly installation and regular greasing required. There are several variations on the original rubber bushing theme, all with their supporters. The main thing is to get ALL the bushings replaced.

The next choice would be turbo vs original tie rods. Now that ER and others have longer versions of these fro the SWB, this is a viable way to add some precision to the steering. Your choice. Turbo tie rods are easier to adjust for toe in, but that is a relatively small thing. Also, if you think bump steer kits are in your future, these use the turbo tie rod style ends. (I'm not a fan of Weltmester bump steer shims for under the rack).

If the car does not have a factory front sway bar, get one. Adjustable ones are more money, but tunable.
The addition of a rear sway bar would be the next step, but you cannot do the front, and then do the rear later, If you do you have to resize the front bar to balance the rear bar.

My favorite upgrade is the monoball front strut tower mounts. These are a great improvement over the original rubber donuts. In '69 the factory upgraded the top rubber mount, and this is an improvement over the original SWB mount even though still rubber. Combine the monoball with a strut tower brace.

Upgrade the front ball joints. The easy way to do this is to find a whole front suspension from an SC and just bolt it in there. You get a bunch of incremental upgrades when you do this, from wider hubs to vented brakes. The front tie-rod geometry is also improved.

Replace the rear suspension arms with shortened LWB arms to get the better bearings. This is really quite involved, as the CV joint flanges are changed.

All of the above changes will not affect the ride or handling, other than to tighten it up. The suspension will feel less rubbery, and the tendency to "hunt" down a straight will be lessened greatly. Those scary oscillations resulting from overcorrecting on a straight will be gone.

Polybronze bushings do not add squeaks or noise. Some poly bushings do. ER has a good writeup on the theory.

Bump steer kit? Personal preference.

Thicker torsion bars? Basically you don't need to go there. They are stiff enough to begin with. Hard core canyon carvers can't get along without these, but their girlfriends (who needs girlfriends?) hate them. Invest in good shocks and all will be well.

Beyond this, there is an almost limitless supply of trick suspension goodies for racing 911s, almost all of which will also fit the SWB. There is really no limit to how much money you can spend in this area. Unless you are in professional racing, though, is really just money hard spent.

SV

[Flieger]

I prefer the Rebel Racing bushings. Lighter than polybronze and no greasing.

911 Rear Spring Plate Bushings 010 by Max_911S_fahrer, on Flickr

A-arm Bearings disassembled view 1 by Max_911S_fahrer, on Flickr

[sithot]

Bob Tilton did a thread on his car which is very nice. I'm too trifling to look for it. The underside of the car was as nice as the top.

Tom

[mikael]

Öhlins are said to release adjustable rally shocks by the end of the summer, and maybe a Road & Track kit later on.

[magnus walker]

A picture OR 4 are worth a thousand words

68-911 sport purpose r inspired.

see it run here

https://vimeo.com/43035679

cheers

magnus