What to look for in a '73 911S?

[Peanut]

It is possible, and I was one of the lucky ones just a few months ago. In a shed, with 5 mouse nests. Cleaned up good, but still needed a ground up restoration with about $28k in just the body and paintwork by a world renowned expert. You need to be honest with your budget capabilities. Even a fairly solid, mostly original car at the 30k price point will need considerable work to get to a good, reliable driver stage. I'd budget $50k as a minimum to get it to an OK driver car.

Because even something that looks like this
Attachment 226837

will have to go down to this if you want to do it right. Yep, it's the same car about 2.5 months after I bought it.
Attachment 226838

If you can't face the prospect of spending a total of 90-100k these days for a decent driving version of one of these cars, then you should probably look at a T or E. Good Es are reaching 100k these days. Yes you can cut corners, use bondo, put the wrong oil lines and cooler, put a crap headliner, just as my 5 previous owners did. and you could make a 30k car look OK, but it wouldn't be right and it won't appreciate the way a good car would.

Ravi

$28k for a decent restoration? I thought they were substantially more. I know there's a huge variable (rust, parts, etc)...but I thought it was more in the $40k - $50k to restore an early car. I am not an expert, but $28k seems reasonable to pull a car apart, take it to the metal, repair a few spots, and piece it back together. I'd always thought a decent spray job was $10k alone. Am I (hopefully) wrong?

[NorthernThrux]

$28k for a decent restoration? I thought they were substantially more. I know there's a huge variable (rust, parts, etc)...but I thought it was more in the $40k - $50k to restore an early car. I am not an expert, but $28k seems reasonable to pull a car apart, take it to the metal, repair a few spots, and piece it back together. I'd always thought a decent spray job was $10k alone. Am I (hopefully) wrong?

That number was just for the bodywork and paint. Soda blasting was about 3.5k of that. Carefully done to preserve any writing on the car from its build in the factory. Otherwise I might have dipped it. Body was galvanized before paint. Don't have that number in my head. Paint is about $15k of the cost, in the original light ivory enamel. I don't see many cars gettting the right paint type, and that is what I mean by "correct". A modern conventional paint job is about 10k I think.

I have to update my build thread, but the bodywork included a new front pan, front latch panel, left inner and outer fender and battery box, rear latch panel, and a few other patches on doors etc. Car had clear front and rear end damage that had been beaten out with a hammer and then bondo expertly applied. I knew it was there when I bought it and used that to negotiate down from the $38k asking price. And that had all rusted in various places. There was no rust on any of the car that had not been damaged, which was quite amazing. Restoration design is about 60 km from the shop, so that is handy. And Robert has the correct Celette bench of course.

Motor, MFI, suspension, gearbox, interior are all on top of that. In a car of unknown history, you have to strip everything down and inspect. Then replate, new bearings etc. My mechanicals were in good shape, original rings went back in for example. But the valve seats were wrong, and had to be reground. But now I 100% know what is in the car and it resets the clock to zero. Previous service history simply does not matter. She starts a new life with no cloud hanging over her. Added the right oil lines, trombone cooler etc. As insurance, but rare and expensive. Clearly 55k miles in 39 years since she was bought in Texas and no signs of overheating.

Some things didn't need doing to just drive. It had a good later dash, but I bought an original '73 dash. It had a Hirschmann repro antenna, but I bought and reconditioned an original '73. So I'm spending money that doesn't need to be spent to make a car a good driver. But it needs to be spent to bring her back properly. Not concours pristine, but all correct. To do things right seems to typically cost 50% more than to just do it fast with what is easily available. The original carpet was a mouse excrement festering disaster. Got an original set from Tom Butler here for less than what a current good repro set costs. But some pieces need redyeing (proper acid dye in a boiling pot, not a spray bomb with carpet paint...wife wasn't happy !) and a bit of patch work and stitching. So 50% more in the end for the carpets, but absolutely original. NOS headliner in ivory. 50% more than from Tony or Autos Intl. But it has the heaxagonal hole pattern, not the wrong square one that they sell. Proper foam steering wheel instead of much more common pre 73 leather wrapped wheels.
I'm told, and have observed, that these are the things that distinguish a 100k S from a 200k S. Buy a decent car, restore it lovingly, and you cannot lose. Buy a rough car, slather in bondo, spray it, tart it up with repro stuff, and you still cannot lose. That "restored" car will still need restoring to be done right. You just pay more for it up front 'cos it looks better. Since I'm not flipping, I choose to do it right.

But we digress. Point is OP needs to know what it costs to do things right and then check his bank account before diving in.

It is a disease.

PS. It takes about 120 hours to take a car fully apart, bag and label everything and take stock of what you have. By fully apart, I mean, every nut, bolt and rivet in the whole thing. Right down to the seat belt receptacles. But no actual restoration work. So multiply that by your shop's labour rate and you get an idea of what is involved. Count on at least that much again to put it back together given that engine assembly takes time.

[MFI 72S]

Hi Ravi, it's too bad as I could have saved you all that hassle and trouble and worry , you could have bought my '72 S , no rust, no accidents, original paint, original glass, matching numbers , has 37,800 miles, verified by 30 plus years service file along with the buyers copy of the sales invoice. Still for sale too . Yes Ravi , I know what you are going through as I did a full down to bare metal resto on a '73 911T and also on a couple of 356's . In fact I was in a Porsche shop to pick up some parts for the 911T and the shop manager asked me if I was interested in his customers 911S as it was for sale. So kids restoring the "T" is to blame for my ownership of this wonderful 911 S , but now I can not keep both !
Back to the point , yes a PPI needs to be done , ask me on the '73 911 resto !
MFI 72S

[NorthernThrux]

MFI 72S,
The other plus side would have been I would have taken another trip out to Vancouver to see my parents. It is a very spectacular car, but completely out of my price range. But I'll be done with my resto for about 65k less than your asking price with a mechanically perfect 1973S car with a perfect body, done by a very well known person. I don't view it as a hassle, worry and trouble. Note to the OP. If you do view a restoration this way...find another hobby ! It is all those things, but you learn to sublimate it. Trust in the shop and your own skills is key to this. A loving and understanding wife is also important !!!!

Ravi

[MFI 72S]

Certainly all of the above and make sure it is indeed a 1973 911S!

MFI 72S,
The other plus side would have been I would have taken another trip out to Vancouver to see my parents. It is a very spectacular car, but completely out of my price range. But I'll be done with my resto for about 65k less than your asking price with a mechanically perfect 1973S car with a perfect body, done by a very well known person. I don't view it as a hassle, worry and trouble. Note to the OP. If you do view a restoration this way...find another hobby ! It is all those things, but you learn to sublimate it. Trust in the shop and your own skills is key to this. A loving and understanding wife is also important !!!!

Ravi

Hi Ravi,
kind of poking fun at myself , found all the restorations that I have done a great learning process and enjoy dong everyone of them ! Have done six different projects , with three of them Porsches. But must thank my '73T resto for leading me to this unbelievable original 911S. When are you out to Vancouver to visit your folks , let me know and we can take the S out and then compare notes.
Gerry

[bcgreen]

Thanks for the link to the info

[bcgreen]

Where to look for rust? Look at the rusted parts laid out in the driveway.

Front suspension attachment, fore and aft
Battery tray
gas tank support
inside the lightboxes of the fenders
bottom of the inner wheel house panels
closing panels at the rear of the front fenders
rear of the front fenders
fender top attachment flange
Cowl at the fender attachment
top edge of the inner fenders/wheel house
inside the hood at the latch, where it had been filled with foam
poor repair to the leading edge of the hood dents
corners of the dash if the front windshield seals leaked
outer rocker panels
inner rocker panels
floor pan sides and under the pedals
if the rear window seals have failed the package tray inside the rear window down to the rear seat pans and down onto the floor
door post and the kidney shaped support on the wheel house panel
lower edge of the doors
rear light housings
rear center panel corners where the wheel house attaches
lower edges of the wheel house
lower corner of the rear windows
Bumper attachment flanges
Top edge of the oil tank
heat exchangers, muffler

A little bubble or hole on the outside means the inside has so much corrosion it is thru rust.
A paint thickness guage to give the top side a once over.
A ice pick to test the metal under the undercoating. Start at the worst offender areas.

Note the photo of the rusted parts on the driveway - how one side was much worse than the other - most cars are like that.
Test both sides.


OK guys what have I missed?

That's quite a list. I will have to print that out just in case there is something near me that I need to look at. If its too far, I may need to call someone or a Porsche dealer to do an inspection.