Snakes amoung us. (A minor cautionary tale.)

[StephenAcworth]

I think that it is inevitable that some people will misrepresent themselves and their products based on rising values of parts and tools.

In a community such as this, where so much is based on trust and shared experience, there still has to be a large element of caveat emptor. However, I have 'missed out' on many parts I really wanted as, being a relative newbie at this, I was asking questions about them, or trying to ascertain originality and fair values, etc. Sometimes I have taken a gamble and bought something I believed was something else: I put this down to experience. In my opinion, most folks here do not misrepresent themselves, and are tolerant of newbies asking questions; but they still want to sell their products. So there is always an element of risk involved.

In two recent transactions on another forum, the things I purchased were very obviously wrong and not as stated.

In one case, the seller told me to return for a full refund. I sent them back and never heard from him until I made a claim through PayPal after which he tried to get me to rescind the claim as he would "send me a refund as soon as I did". Needless to say I didn't and accelerated the process. Eventually I received the purchase price back from PayPal (who were very decent about the whole thing). However, I am out of pocket the return shipping ($25) and the transaction and currency exchange fees. I filed a separate claim for these to the seller only to be ignored.

In the second case, the seller again offered a refund and we are now trying to sort it out after the returned items were misdirected by USPS! But at least we have an open line of communication.

Both sellers are active on this forum.

I chose not to 'out' the first seller, but did add a cautionary note of "caveat emptor" on a thread he started. This was, I thought, fair.

I know that I really value the knowledge and 'parts bin' that this forum provides and hope that, through good, open communication, we can continue to operate honourably!

I hope this situation gets resolved well...

[Eminence Gris]

On another forum we're all familiar with, there has been a pattern over the past 5 or 6 years of once-respected sellers going to the dark side. Inevitably the first person to be ripped off brings it up, only to be hammered by people who have had positive experiences. This tends to extend the period of time that the bad actor gets to rip other folks off.

I'm not saying anything that blatant is happening here, and hearing one side only is a poor basis for judgement.

Having said that, we have a social contract here -- an assumed pledge to be fair to each other and our opinions can be focused to help rectify situations. The OP has taken the correct first step of introducing the situation without naming names. However, I for one, will be asking who the seller is.

[mrgreenjeans]

' going to the dark side '

this should not even be a term as it relates to any of us here.

to say 'shame' at this point would be so apt, but seem so moralistic, BUT that is what we are talking about.

on track, a revenge mode would be utilized, of this am quite certain, if it happened to me.

take 'em to the boards

[denson]

So, in this case, it seems we are beyond a "mistake" A mistake means that "good" people make it right, that they do what is fair. I do not see that here. I recently ended a relationship with a repair shop when they billed me $2,340.00 to re-do the wiring to my factory fog lights. They were already installed and needed the wiring re-done, and a relay (correct aluminun one I supplied) installed. They billed 18.5 hours. When I asked twice the owner said, well that is how long it took him. I find this to be farily common in the vintage Porsche world. No, not by all, and yes there are some very talented, fair and reputable people out there, but my friends and I talk about this all the time. Or, how about the vendor that gets the parts for you and then doubles the price. Yes, I have had that happen too.

This is unfortunate as with any trade it makes the good guys look bad as we now walk around not trusting people and vendors. I gather we are back to caveat emptor. I think that is all we have when evaluating people and vendors.

[Bill Simmeth]

So, in this case, it seems we are beyond a "mistake" A mistake means that "good" people make it right, that they do what is fair. I do not see that here.

I don't understand why you are saying that. OP says:

The seller has contacted me. He claims it was an honest mistake, apologized for the error and for not contacting me sooner, and although I haven't verified yet, claims to have refunded my money. I'll take him at his word that he was unaware it was a repro until after the sale.

It sounds like an apology was extended, mistake admitted to, money refunded. What else are you looking for?

[69Sman]

[QUOTE=denson;626398]So, in this case, it seems we are beyond a "mistake" A mistake means that "good" people make it right, that they do what is fair. I do not see that here. I recently ended a relationship with a repair shop when they billed me $2,340.00 to re-do the wiring to my factory fog lights. .[/QUOTE

John, unless they decided to go with 24kT gold audiophile wires....that is total BS....IMHO....

[Eminence Gris]

So, in this case, it seems we are beyond a "mistake" A mistake means that "good" people make it right, that they do what is fair. I do not see that here. I recently ended a relationship with a repair shop when they billed me $2,340.00 to re-do the wiring to my factory fog lights. They were already installed and needed the wiring re-done, and a relay (correct aluminun one I supplied) installed. They billed 18.5 hours. When I asked twice the owner said, well that is how long it took him. I find this to be farily common in the vintage Porsche world.

...I think that is all we have when evaluating people and vendors.

Okay, but how do we evaluate vendors when you do not name the shop that charged $2,340 to wire your foglights? There are 'teflon' shops that will just keep screwing customers if the warning flags aren't put out.

[denson]

I know they tried to hose me so bad. What dummies! I have 4 cars and keep them well serviced. I think each job, barring unforseen things, has a fair estimate of time. I get it when bolts are seized on, or when something may need fabrication, but a valve adjust is a valve adjust and the hours used should be "reasonably" the same from vendor to vendor. What I do now is I buy all my own parts, and ask the vendor to email me a rough estimate of time. They don't like that too much! Too bad I say, it is my car and I do not hold them to exacts, but if they offer a five hour time on a job and bill me 14, we have a problem. They bill six to seven hours, that is cool. It keeps them honest and within a range. If they have a reasonable explanation for a great deal of added time, which is not,,,,,, "the mechanic said this is how long it took him", I will listen and be fair. Unfortunately, I get the dummy reply a good deal of the time.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but this does seem in line with the genesis of this thread.

[graemel]

I think a lot of this has to do with the escalating values of our early cars. In the UK an 'S' is worth £80K plus. So why should you get upset about a bill for £3000 when you own such a valuable car. Even if the work should only be invoiced out at £500. It's like they want a piece of the action although they don't own the car. I went through this scenario with a valuable 993 that I used to own.

[EA911]

^

You've got to be kidding me. Just because your car is valuable doesn't give the shop the right to rip you off. And its even worst if you accept that kind of treatment.

I learned how to wrench on my cars because its fun but also because I don't want to get these inflated bills.
I also have a 911T so maybe I wouldn't get as gouged