Researching production numbers on 1969 Karman built cars

[Perry911]

I have been doing significant research on several 356 and early 911's within the last year for both work and pleasure.

One car in question is a model year 1969 911 coupe built by Karman in the tailend of 1968.

I reached out to Mark Noak recently to verify and tie in the 7 digit production numbers on the car to it's vin number. This particular car has 2 similar but different production numbers on it (1 on lower dash by ashtray and the other on rear of transmission shifter shaft tunnel)

The response from Mark was the following:

"In our files the productionnumbers are just listed from model'70 onwards,
we have no productionnumbers listed before model'70!"

Has anyone else been able to overcome this stonewall? One would think that the factory put these numbers (unique production and body stampings) on the cars for the sole purpose of back tracing to a specific vin, right?

This information must exist somewhere layered within their records. Master lists, individual build sheets.

What is left? What has been lost?

Are there any Porsche historians out there that might know of such information for model year 1969 exists?

Karman may have had their own records. Do these records still exist?

If anyone has any information or suggestions please email me privately at peterperry911113@gmail.com

Thanks

Peter

[leedurrant73]

I have a very early vin, 69 car and the production number is near ashtray and also under the dash written in pen above the dials. I also have a production number on my paint badge but not many 69 cars has this one for some reason. You will need to remove the dash to check the number, I checked mine and it matched the one near the ashtray.

Good luck.

Thanks lee

[Perry911]

I have a very early vin, 69 car and the production number is near ashtray and also under the dash written in pen above the dials. I also have a production number on my paint badge but not many 69 cars has this one for some reason. You will need to remove the dash to check the number, I checked mine and it matched the one near the ashtray.

Lee

I have already done this. There are, in fact 2 production numbers stamped into this particular 1969 model year Karman built car. 1 near the ashtray, the 2nd one is on the rear portion of the the shifter rod tunnel. On this particular car these numbers are different. The one on the dash is 1292563 the one on the shifter tunnel is 1292554. The doors and engine cover are also stamped 554. I have not pulled the dash cover to expose the crayon marking.

Mark Noak from factory archives, however, says that they do not have any production number information on 1969 cars that can track this information back to the car's vin number.

In light of this I will continue to try to validate this information.

Any information from any of our forum members is helpful.

Thanks
Peter

[leedurrant73]

I need to check further on mine but I have two completely different numbers but spaced out further than yours.
Cheers lee

[davep]

Peter, I think that I'm the only person collecting the data on the production number and the Karmann body number. So far I do not have a lot of info since these #'s are not well known, and people have to make an effort to find them. It would be most useful to get the VIN and the paint code from the badge of your car to add to my database. Any other data would be a bonus. Then I can compare to what I have and see how it fits. Marc Noack has been helpful, but I do believe that the 1969 data has been lost. They still used Kardex cards for data in 1969, and that does not seem to include the production #. From 1970 the records were stored by computer, so these numbers were probably included in the database. I am not sure of the transition from one system to another, but it does seem to be split by the model year. There were a lot of changes occurring rapidly from 1965 through 1973.

[69S-S/R]

1969 911S 119301416, production number 1092978 on dash.

Tom Scott

[QWKENF-911]

1969 911E #119200924 production# 1093065 greased penciled by driver's vent and stamped on dash by ashtray provision

[M_deJong]

Neither of those were built by Karmann.

[Fishcop]

Mike, what is the Karmann code? I take it the chassis# will tell me...

Thanks

[beh911]

All S cars made at Porsche factory
All E coupes starting with 11922* were Karmann bodies
All T coupes starting with 11912* were Karmann bodies