Another Siffert 911? . . .

[LongRanger]

There are a lotta pictures of Jo Siffert

To tell ya the truth --- when it comes to race drivers . . . his is not exactly the most famous/recognized name. He was killed in October 1971, and --- while he was there at/part of The Beginning of Porsche's ascendancy to the top ranks of endurance + Sports Car racing . . . really Big Time Racing --- and Porsche's contributions to it . . . were still to come

Still . . . there are tons of photographs of the man. Amazing

Race car drivers are sports figures, and --- like movie and rock stars . . . are basically entertainers. That job? --- entertaining . . . involves visibility. The irony is that racers . . . are effectively invisible when they do their job. Helmets, balaclavas, all manner of suits + safety gear, then stuffed into a car . . . not to mention that their 'stage' is a usually few hundred acres in size . . . and they usually perform at high-speed + some distance . . .

. . . let's just say that, although their names may be 'house-hold' --- their faces? . . . are not. Different kinda audience, too

So --- for someone, working in a relatively specialized area, usually in far-away places + for small audiences . . . and who passed-away decades ago . . . . the number of pictures of him + where they turn-up . . . are remarkable

My interest in Mr Siffert has to do with his cars --- not his racers, but specifically his 'personal' cars. I have a 911 that once belonged to him. And so, I go looking for pictures

One of the pictures that I came across is this one . . .

I really like this 1st photo. He's in what looks like his racing-suit pants, loafers, polo . . . + looking pretty relaxed, too . . . considering how really dangerous his chosen profession is. I can just imagine him on his way to/from a race, pulling-off at a little road-side, having a picnic

And I always wonder . . . who took this picture?

This is not the car that I have. This car has a tan interior, while mine --- 9110301059 . . . is all black



I'd always sorta assumed that this was another one of his cars --- 9111301180 . . . which, I believe originally came w/ a tan interior

Few weeks back, I was going through Thomas Seydoux's (aka 'Milou') thread of the restoration of 1180 . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ber-says-hello

. . . when I noticed a detail on the pass-side door --- 2nd photo

1180 is color-changed --- from green ext + tan int . . . and, although I've never seen anything about the Kardex for this vehicle, I've also never read anything about any equipment changes, either, so . . .

. . . manual windows



So when I go back to that 1st picture + look closely --- at the driver-side door . . . there --- just below the door cap . . . I can just make-out the bright chrome bezel of . . .

. . . electric windows


Not 9110301059

Not 9111301180?


Another 'Siffert' 911? . . .

[LongRanger]

I was a little hesitant to bring this topic up. After all, the 'other' Siffert 911s have some documentation --- factory records + Kardex . . . to connect them to the man

And proximity does not = ownership

Yet . . . to see Mr Siffert comfortably sitting . . .

Still . . . hesitated



Then, I had a recent exchange w/ Bryce (beh911), who'd found an interesting site w/ photo . . .
http://chronocentric.com/forums/heue...=read;id=67431

Remarkable image. From the profile of the roof + the tell-tale presence of a 'wind-blocker' --- this appears to be a sun-roof-equipped car, so . . .

. . . not 9110301059

I noticed also the presence of a small 'checker-boarded' decal, in the lower pass-side corner of the windshield --- a 'Weltmeisterschaft' badge? Yet, as Bryce pointed-out to me, Milou's vehicle, when it was restored, had this badge affixed to the pass-side rear 1/4 window . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-RHD-1971-911s

. . . so . . .

. . . not 9111301180?


When Bryce first showed me this photo --- of Mr Siffert, behind-the-wheel . . . I was struck by not only Mr Siffert's attire --- causal, in a darker polo (!) . . . . but also that he appears to have some clothing hanging from the driver-side coat hook

Looks like he's pretty comfortable, in there . . . like he would be --- in his own car, maybe?

Also. Twin dash clocks. Not exactly something that would turn up on a Kardex . . .

. . . = personal?, so . . .



Another Siffert 911?


PS Curious. 1180 ex-Milou has twin dash clocks, too

[911T1971]

Rick, interesting.
Unless Thomas chimes in, I know he later added Twinmaster dash clocks for his rally tours with 1180.
(We used to share the same shop mechanic and did one rally together).
It was basicially a personal-taste resto and BEFORE realising the car had a famous past…if Thomas knew earlier, he might had opted to restore it exactly how it left the factory.
I recall the car was total re-built from a naked shell and with its old interior missing: it received a black interior instead, and was - by the request of Thomas - color changed from Metallic green to a Slate Gray color. It originally had a rear window wiper, but this was not mounted anymore during the restoration. Back then there was a confusion that the (original) 2.4S engine was not correct (mind you, it was a 2.4L sporto on a 2.2S..). So they sold the engine and mounted a non-matching 2.2S in it. When discovering the cars true origin's proto specs, Thomas brought back again its original engine and kept it in storage, along with the car.
For the sake of being precise, one can note that in the shop during restauration, you see 1180 w 911T spec. chrome rear bumper guards and thin rubbers…this was later changed and S style spec. mounted.
I think many infos and pics of 1180 are today lost on this board.

Here is 1180 in its original Metallic green w tan interior, built april 1971. It looks like a 2.4S but its a 1971 2.2S shell, no oil flap, 2.4S front spoiler, sunroof, square rear view mirror, manual antenna and Sportomatic 2.4S engine. Its basicially a 2.4l prototyp, given to Siffert in mid 1971. (Another metallic green was given to the late Rodriguez).
Below pics show 1180 in the 80ies with Geneva state/swiss plates.



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As for you other infos, Rick, you re right.
the pics below show a car w 2.2l style rear-view mirror, front windshield decal and tan int…quite opposite to 1180 above, which had a square rear view mirror….



This pics I posted before, Le Mans, June/July 1970. During Le Mans movie making.
One of three: Sunroof, automatic antenna, decal windshield and w its Swiss "CH" decal, on engine rear lid.
I would say it even has bumper guards.


Super 8 movie still by Paul Blancpain, June 1970, during LM filming, pic supplied by Thomas


24h Le Mans race, June 1971 (as 917specs reveil, JW Gulf raced with 1971 models but had a spare 1970 spec 917 KH in the pits). Green FR plate 911 in the rear.




This I posted before, Austria GP 1971, August 15th 1971.
Siffert's Yardley F1 team truck is seen.
Blue Jag E-typ on brit plates next to a 911 w sunroof, automatic antenna, bumper guards.
Courtesy Rainer Schlegelmilch

[Milou]

Karim is absolutely correct! When I restored the car, I didn't know it was Siffert's, and changed the color etc...As a factory driver Siffert had many 911 (and as a successful Porsche dealer in Fribourg). Mine was delivered to him in April 1971, a few months before he passed away, so other Siffert 911 must be out there....

[72targa]

Did you see this?

http://bringatrailer.com/2012/09/06/...-porsche-911e/

[gsjohnson]

Did you see this?

http://bringatrailer.com/2012/09/06/...-porsche-911e/

The name of the web site in the UK escapes now, but this car had a long blog by the finder of this car, it's discovery, and ultimate purchase a year ago or so in the UK. He had big plans to restore the car, but after realizing that this was a monumental project that it needed to be restored properly, the owner decided that it was worth more money to him now than the emptying of his bank account for years to come. I never read anything about the Siffert connection at the time the owner acquired this car. Certainly a rare piece of Porsche history that will require gobs of dough to get it done right.

[beh911]

There is a nice thread on DDK on E #1. It is discussed in the thread how the car came into Siffert's hands

[LongRanger]

. . . There is a nice thread on DDK on E #1. It is discussed in the thread how the car came into Siffert's hands . . .

Here's the DDK thread . . .
http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/vie...zing+barn+find

[LongRanger]

Karim may've already done this, so --- I apologize if I'm repeating anything . . .

From looking at all the photos collected/presented here, on our site, so far --- here's what I believe will be the specifications of Mr Siffert's 'Mystery' 911 . . .

1) 1970 911S --- definitely built before June
2) Probably metallic green --- at least two of his other 911s were, so . . .
3) Tan interior w/ standard seats
4) Electric widows
5) Sun-roof
6) Hi-end optional factory radio w/ factory RH power antenna
7) Rear wiper
8) No front bumper guards

Naturally --- after 40-some years, there's a good chance that some/all of this vehicle's equipment may've changed/gone missing. So, these specifications that I've listed relate to the car's original equipment as per Kardex

9) Also --- the car was equipped w/ twin dash-clocks, at some point . . . which may not appear on the Kardex


Here are what I believe to be photos of this vehicle . . .


One Big Caveat . . .
Although one of Karim's photos shows the vehicle w/ CH plate = FR 10032 --- which is described as Mr Siffert's 'personal' plate . . . switching license plates between cars for any number of reasons (like, avoiding taxes/registration/duties, etc) seems to've been some kind of sport, Back in the Day. Also, I find it strange that Mr Siffert seems to have operated an unusual stable of almost-identical cars. Why would someone have virtually the same car, over and over?

Therefore --- keep in mind that the license plate may be the least-reliable way of identifying the car from photos

[911T1971]

Therefore --- keep in mind that the license plate may be the least-reliable way of identifying the car from photos

Rick, I disagree.
FR 100 32 is a swiss license plate w old style "large letter" type from the late fifties, which makes it most likely to be a personal plate of Siffert himself. If you do your Swiss driving license and get your license plate on your first car, you can keep your license plate number your whole life on whatever car you might later own, as long as you continue to life in the same state/canton of FR (FR means canton of FRibourg)
Siffert therefore could use the same FR 100 32 license plate on several cars owned by himself, throughout his life.
As most Swiss do, you keep your license plate number during your life and never change them (if you dont't have too).

One Big Caveat . . .
. . switching license plates between cars for any number of reasons (like, avoiding taxes/registration/duties, etc) seems to've been some kind of sport, Back in the Day.

Rick, not quite right.
In Switzerland, if you have a dealership/car shop you can have commercial license plates and use them on several cars of your company, including client ones. This was regular and legal habit and exists up to this day. Its not for avoiding taxes but a legal commercial way of paying taxes on a single plate, which can be used on several company cars. Usually they include the letter "U" (for Unternehmer ie. Corp.) and are very easy to spot. Siffert's FR 100 32 seems not to be a commercial plate.

One Big Caveat . . .
Although one of Karim's photos shows the vehicle w/ CH plate = FR 10032 --- which is described as Mr Siffert's 'personal' plate

Unfortunately, we cant ask the swiss DMV aka ASTRA which cars where registered on FR 100 32 (you can if you own the license plate today) since this might would confirm that this was his personal use plate.
BUT seeing a green Porsche 911 on FR 100 32 plates within the 1970 LM Mc Queen movie making area (by Paul Blancpain's private shot, supplied by Thomas) as well as in the paddock area of the official 1971 Le Mans Gulf Racing Team does makes a very strong case that FR 100 32 was indeed reserved for the racer's personal use 911.

Also, I find it strange that Mr Siffert seems to have operated an unusual stable of almost-identical cars. Why would someone have virtually the same car, over and over?

Personal taste ?
We now know that at least two Siffert 911 have been Metallic green.
As far as I know, Siffert liked "racing green" cars and his 908&917 had all green front, for track identyfying.
Also, Most of his british built Lotus & Brabhams F1 from the 60ies were in (british) racing green too.
(On a sideline, Pedro Rodriguez received a 1971 911 in Metallic Green too, a factory gift, as w Siffert.
And as we all know, Ferry Porsche himself drove almost excusively in green Porsche's.)
Here are the "green" racing cars of Siffert:







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BTW, Wikipedia/French offers the most comprehensive infos about Siffert.
His connections with Porsche, Solar and even w Jack Heuer are very well described.
Didnt know he owned/sold three 908, Mirage-BRM, March, Bugatti Typ 35, Chevron, Ferrari's...

here:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Siffert