Rick,
Mine is 'nosuch' car.
Just a garden variety pre-production Targa.
500010?
Now THAT'S a special car.
Rick,
Mine is 'nosuch' car.
Just a garden variety pre-production Targa.
500010?
Now THAT'S a special car.
Last edited by Frank Beck; 11-29-2014 at 03:57 PM.
VIN = 9111301207
Eng# = ?
Trans# = ?
. . . ex Jackie Oliver
More, here . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...Oliver-VERSUCH
................
Last edited by LongRanger; 01-28-2017 at 05:11 PM.
VIN = 119300950
Eng# = 6391347
Trans# = 7195444
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...Kurt-Ahrens-jr
..............
The whole Versuch discussion can be made a little easier to understand if one broadens its definition to approximate that of the very British term "bespoke," meaning made for a particular customer or use, or as we say in the USA, "custom made." Viewing Versuch in this way explains the inclusion of all sorts of modification not specifically made for racing or test purposes yet still qualifying for inclusion in a listing of Versuch cars.
Interesting point, but . . .Originally Posted by ejboyd5
. . . none of these cars --- except perhaps Dr Porsche's car . . . are at all custom, even unusual. Low VINs on some, maybe. And Mr Siffert's car has some interesting options listed --- but nothing that wasn't available to anyone else. And the Ahren's car has no options . . . not so much as fog light. So the vehicles themselves? . . . not really THAT unusual/interesting
What IS really interesting? . . .
. . . is who gets them
Could it be that 'Versuch' has nothing to do with these vehicles, per se? They're 'just cars' --- at least, these civilian versions that've been listed here, so far. I'm thinking that 'Versuch' has more to do with how these cars were transferred to the owners listed on the Kardex
I noticed that the Kardex for Mr Ahrens car shows the vehicle transferred ~year after it was built . . .
. . . same as Mr Siffert's
Could it be that these vehicles were Porsche's assets for a year . . . depreciated, then expensed + sold-/written-off?
Maybe 'Versuch' was just a convenience --- some place to carry the costs of cars that Porsche had 'loaned-out' or 'gifted' or ? Then, after a year? . . .
. . . damit basta!
..
Yes agree Rick. We should not interprete too much into Versuch.
Imo it was a generic term for cars held off after the factory production line for the factory's own use, test, race, show or whatever it needed during a limited time and not intended to be included immediately into the dealer network, being not the result of an external clients order anyway.
After that use, they were sold off (a few gifted) and it looks like often to the ones who used them during that previous "Versuch" process noted on Kardex: to its drivers, factory employees or selected dealers.
Registry member No.773
There may be something in what you say Rick but I think the factory built the E I discovered to check out details in the transfer from swb to lwb. There are quite a few crossover parts both mechanically and bodily which suggest a validation of what might or might not work in what was, undoubtedly, the biggest production update in the 911 model to that point. The car was built two months before production began (June 68) perhaps in an effort to finalise the details of the new model. After production started the car was kept by the factory for a few more months when without doubt it was modified a little more before being gifted away (no further use in testing) in January 69. I think ‘testing mule’ is a good term for this particular car because, as you say, there is nothing special about it with regard to non production parts with the possible exception of the red lwb interior which must have been specially upholstered at the time because this did not extend to the lower dash which is standard black basket weave.
Regards
Mike
RS#1551(sold)
67S
73E (home after 25 years) and sold again
Early S reg. #681
Rick I will point out that the Kardex on mine lists no options
But I'm not sure option weren't listed? Another odd piece is the front struts. I will dig more into it tomorrow. Front brake caliper are S but look to be two different designs. In hearing from Ahrens (2nd hand info) he had two cars one a Targa and this Coup. Being that my car was lost for so long I'm not sure what is original etc. Brakes, suspension etc could have been changed at any point. Jurgen Barth told me 119300950 was used by Ahrens to travel between races and could have been used for testing. I'll know more soon.
I forget to mention that as the car sits now it has Transmission 901/13 7197580 and a 70 T engine with E MFI. So S chassis T engine and E induction ..lol The transmission is only 40 numbers off original! Odd huh?
Last edited by Fubawu; 11-13-2017 at 06:23 PM.
911 1967S 308470
[B]911 1965 301946 Irish Green
[B]911 1965 302962 Polo Red
911 1965 300760 White SOLD
911 1971S S/T 2.5
914-6 1970 GT 2.3
Look for me at a track near you!
Early S Reg #2699
https://www.facebook.com/#!/MachineMotorsports
Read this in a 69 S competition thread. Makes you think that some of these VERSUCH cars could have been basic cars that were meant to be competition cars?
69 lightweight 911s
Don,Robert,
This thread indicates that there is definately a vacuum of information on these 'Customer racing lightweight 911Ss in 1969'.They don't even seem to have a designation such as the ST,TR and light L of 1968 going forward to the ST of 1970.Maybe 'orphan' could do.
Bear in mind that if you were the Kremer,Wicky,Sonauto or Haldi teams, then Porsche could have possibly been trying to sell/get you to race a 906/907 or 908 depending on the 'friendly terms' available at the time!
Again,the development engineers would have still been too busy with the 917 programme to even think about a race 911S development.So in 1969 I would say that any 911S race development would have been carried out by those private teams with minimal interest from Porsche, apart from selling a (very)basic race car.
No doubt there would have been 'some' cars sold by Porsche,but the Boschen/Barth book doesn't even list 1969 as a customer car sale year!
On the other hand in the USA - what were the two Ginther cars of 1969 for Johnson and EFR?Is anyone still around from that workshop to tell?
Last edited by Fubawu; 11-13-2017 at 07:10 PM.
911 1967S 308470
[B]911 1965 301946 Irish Green
[B]911 1965 302962 Polo Red
911 1965 300760 White SOLD
911 1971S S/T 2.5
914-6 1970 GT 2.3
Look for me at a track near you!
Early S Reg #2699
https://www.facebook.com/#!/MachineMotorsports
Hi all,
it was acc. Mr.Barth common practise then that works drivers were provided with standard road cars as e.g. 911T/ E or S for the whole season(registered for Porsche KG with plates S-xx-xxx), which they could use even as daily drivers. Approximately one year after first delivery these cars were offered by the "Versuch"-department to them for purchase. The drivers usually accepted these offers, since they could make some extra money by reselling the cars in this way.
So nothing special with "Versuch"-cars in this case. Simple procedure to avoid tax troubles and make race drivers happy ;-)
Cheers Wolf
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