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Thread: Seeing Green: My time with 308427S

  1. #141
    Registry Member #2679 friggens's Avatar
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    Since my last post I’ve resorted back to careful Tuning & Research over driving hard to make performance improvements to 308427.

    The car has Capacitive Discharge Ignition and a Pertronix Ignitor. I had changed none of this - and therefore I had not ever really known if my CDI unit was working optimally or not. Switching it out with another I won at auction didn't instill more confidence either... One that came on the car has the nice loud hum, the car did pretty well, but I left it alone as a seemingly functional Black Box.

    Last week a beautiful 7300 RPM limited, Refurbished 3 pin CDI box from Kurt Donohoe at Partsklassik arrived in the mail less than 3 days after ordering . In the mean time I reconsidered the status of my carb settings, and I read.

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    The Weber Carburatori Tuning Manual can be read more than once… go ahead, its ok. It’s great actually!!!! I had forgotten everything I had begun to grasp while going through the carbs & seeing them sorta well tuned back in April. The description of the way in which Weber’s are designed, the color circuit diagrams, the tuning instructions. This on top of Paul Abbot’s notes (& the Haynes Weber Manual & Braden’s Weber book ), and I began to see how to proceed in tuning and/or troubleshooting the carbs better than I had yet.

    When I went through the IDS Webers, I was careful to put the throttle plates back exactly where they were, but I did not bench check the position of the plates with respect to the progression ports. Friday I worked in the dark with a flashlight and a mirror to examine the condition and arrangement of each bore’s 3 ports with the throttle fully closed (idle adjustment screws all the way off the tab) on the car. They were consistent: light could be seen through the upper two ports clean and crisp, while the lowest port was just more than half darkened by the edge of the throttle plate in each case. Very cool.

    Study helped me to realize the connection between the port chamber and the Idle Jets was just as important to check / clean as the ports or jets themselves, so I blew 20 psi from the open port chamber to the open idle jet holes.

    So what I had now was a pretty well tuned engine with NEW & IMPROVED CDI unit & clean, carefully examined Webers (the rest of my tuning process is unchanged from that already documented here).

    I left the Idle Adjustment Screws backed out all the way and started the car. It had to be helped with the pedal for a few minutes and began to hold idle at 500-600 RPM. It popped some, but kept running better as it sat there warming up & filling my shop with exhaust. Turned on a big fan & just let the engine idle… nothin’ but Idle Mixture Screw supply and whatever air leaks around my throttle shafts. Kept comparing vacuum numbers from throat to throat quickly to catch a given RPM and started playing with the Compensation Air Adjusting Screws to improve on Synchrometer readings as the engine warmed at idle, throttle plates down. It just kept getting better, gaining some RPM as I tuned each Idle Mixture Screw by sound, rechecked vacuum in the throats, listened to the engine intently for some time, then shut it down. I had no time to continue with testing for 4 more days… until TODAY!!!!


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    Today I started the car at about 1:30 pm, the warmest part of the day. I now realize completely just how much assisted warm up means to a beast with no Choke Valve, so I am patient and I sit there happily helping the engine in lieu of a hand throttle. Basically the car got going fine, I backed it out and drove gently to continue warming it up. The car coughed and hiccuped plenty, but it really did not stumble much. As with the tinkering at idle, the car ran better & better as it simply warmed up. With no further tuning I was AMAZED at how well the car ran. Idle progression was still nothing to write home about & pops could be heard now and again, but the car flew up the Rio Grande to I-40 on ramp like nobody’s business and just kept going, smooth and even (except for my poorly balanced wheels). I ran the car through town to Tijeras Canyon and turned around.

    The car was good & hot (though the carbs were still cool ) when I came back to shop for more Synchrometer, Compensation Air Adjusting Screw & Idle Mixture Screw tuning. I just kept going around, checking vacuum and making very small adjustments. **One point I had not incorporated before was highlighted in the Weber Manual tuning procedure: “CAUTION: one compensation screw of each carburetor must remain fully tightened.” All of mine were at least a turn out… So I took the screw on each carb that was tightest and closed them. Low & Behold they had the same vacuum – somewhat lower with lower RPM, but equal. It was the rear screw on the R and the front screw on the L. Now I brought the other Synchrometer readings in line with the closed screw throats, played with Idle Mixture, LISTENED… The idle had decreased considerably to approx 400 RPM, allowing me to turn in the Idle Adjustment Screws to bring the idle up to 900 – 1000 RPM, which was about ½ turn in from contact on each screw. Then I hopped back in & drove it again. Popping and hic-ups were G-O-N-E. Transition through the circuits was S-M-O-O-T-H. I am now able to cruise the car at 30 mph, 1600 rpm in 5th !! gear with no stumble, no bucking. If I am gentle about it, the car can be readily brought up to higher speed from there without shifting at all. Shifting normally through the gears, bringing RPM up to 4000 for each shift, the car appears lightened, opened and ready to fly. I experienced no popping or hesitation to speak of during this drive, not through progression circuits, not with the throttle open, not when I let my foot off. Smooth power far above and beyond what I had yet experienced, and it sounds better when yer foot is in it from lower RPM.

    Essentially, while I may have had some crud in the carbs (maybe NOT), improved Ignition has made the Webers more tunable. There is slight air leakage around the shaft at the throttle linkage on each carb. Idle is slow to return to 900 from 1100 RPM most of the time while warm. We’ll see how it does in this state while it warms up next time, but I honestly feel that I have it as good as I’m going to get it, and I know why & how it got there.

    If I can manage, I’m heading back to check on that asphalt work tomorrow…

    Thanks Kurt Donohoe for developing the improved CDI!!!!

    Will I be able to get this level of performance out of original points and coil some day???

    Cheers and Thanks for Riding Along!!!!!

  2. #142
    Pay to play Schiefer's Avatar
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    Very interesting reading Mike!
    It would be great if you could provide a 90 degrees pic to this thread to show even better how things are organized.

    http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...sKlassik/page2

    Many thanks, Radmund :-)
    S-Reg #1382
    67S Lavender
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  3. #143
    Registry Member #2679 friggens's Avatar
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    Hey Radmund -

    I forgot to mention that your thread referenced and Gibb's work dialing in his yellow beast were essential parts of my study. I'll get better diagrammatic images of the electrical end pretty quick...

    This is what I like - the fact that we can be on topic together with pertinent info to each of our own most important pursuits!!!!!!

    The electrical work on my car was set up (I believe) by Richard Lambert in Fort Worth. Its fairly neat and tidy, although the position of the fuel pump is not original or optimal. In fact my original style facet pump is mounted on one stud at present. They had a Hardi in there sideways. It's performance would not equal this old Facet my Dad ran in an E-Type during the 80's 'till 2002... 2.5 psi running. So anyhow that is the only minus aside from not-original. I'll display later. Cheers - Mike
    Last edited by friggens; 10-15-2014 at 05:57 AM.

  4. #144
    Registry Member #2679 friggens's Avatar
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    Well Shite, what to write...

    I was in the car again today at 1:00. It started quick and needed only a little nursing to get it out of the garage and pointed down the road. I heard a few pops while it was cold, but within a block it could hold idle at stop no ploblem, started off into traffic with confidence. Filled it to about 2/3 tank with 91 octane and hit I-40 East through Tijeras Canyon, up through Cedar Crest... and all the way to the Sandia Crest, no stops - . At 10,678 feet the idle went to 900 rpm immediately before shutting it down. Never a hesitation, buck or pop in the climb. The sound of the car climbing in a straight at 5500 - 6000 RPM was really wild. I gave it quite a test and the tires were hot to the touch up there in the parking lot...

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    962126 at 10678

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    I was reluctant to stop for photos on the way down, pumping brakes ahead of corners, throttling, engine breaking, shifting and braking again. THEN I heard a pop or two! I think those were the healthy kind tho, and its high up there! Actually more than a mile higher than my house...

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    Every time I stopped and started out again (trying to stay ahead of the family I know I barely beat out of the parking lot), the car did what it was supposed to do. It never missed a beat and any sense of fragility just went away... Not all the road up there has been repaved within the last week; asphalt has a hard life on a big mountain, but this road is truly great even when it begins to crumble. I like to say its the only reason I have a road bike - now this. I had no plan to make the crest road this year in that car. Its always there, but it did not seem prudent It wasn't ready? Well that was true... Now its All the way up, All the way down, no hitches and full power, old tires squealing only a little. Fun times. Serious, but fun -

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    ...
    Last edited by friggens; 10-16-2014 at 07:38 AM.

  5. #145
    Registry Member #2679 friggens's Avatar
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    And that Asphalt work....

    The rollers and big trucks were g-o-n-e just like the hesitation in the Webers. But still no stripes for about 3 miles, fresh pavement for 8 or so...

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    I'm counting my blessings, the car is safe in the garage and I had no idea it would be like this this fall. There was this little white 89 or so 300 series BMW that kept with me all the way into town to top it off. That cannot be described any further But it was all good; thumbs were up. Hibernation is definitely coming fast. But the car sits there sorted. Was home by 2:45 in time to get the kids to gymnastics...

    Another 80 miles.... Thanks for riding along!!!!!!
    Last edited by friggens; 10-16-2014 at 07:36 AM.

  6. #146
    Registry Member #2679 friggens's Avatar
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    OK, I drove again today. Just easy, relaxed driving never above 80 mph. Very different than yesterday, but same direction. Headed North through Cedar Crest again, but this time out to the pass just south of Heart Break Hill and the town Madrid on Hwy 14. Car ran great, tho the carbs got hotter toward the end of this long slower trip than they ever had on the high elevation drive when I was driving faster yesterday. I stopped twice, once for a snack, a second time in town for about 20 minutes. All that air moving through them with the throttle open more more of the time must make a difference, and the heat rises up quick I think when the car sits idle, making the carbs very hot. So once really hot, it ran differently with a hiccup or two. May have floats to high for real hot car - those will have to be rechecked. That condition of a hot pair of Webers intensified after parking the car in the shop. Gas was making it into the throats enough to make the space smell like raw fuel - which I have experienced before. Could very well be I never checked the floats this hot. This is a compounding factor to feeling out the PartsKlassik CDI, but the car still ran very well.

    Here are a few more gratuitous road side images, up at the bend before dropping into Madrid. I sure like the Pinyon Juniper Woodlands of New Mexico!

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    Another 90 miles - Cheers!!

  7. #147
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    Lovely country, Mike . . .

    . . . and glad to see you're more comfortable driving/using/extending your car


    How's your MpG? --- jus' curious

    .........

    We Can Be Heroes

  8. #148
    Senior Member mohrgan's Avatar
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    Mike, You're not going to use your car during the winter?! You get some really nice winter days in ABQ!
    -Chris Mohr

    S Registry #1978

  9. #149
    Registry Member #2679 friggens's Avatar
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    Hi Rick -

    I owe you a call!! MPG's... I have not calculated. Last trip would have been good because my foot was behaving. I do know it uses lots of fuel and that the gauge works. Performance has been my only criteria for attention so far. Had the car out last night in mild cool conditions and it ran perfectly. I need to plan careful float setting with hot carburetors.

    I know how you feel about using the car, Rick. Many here have obviously driven the socks off these cars. I am greatful to feel comfortable using the little devil. The miles are arguably correct at ~126k, so low mileage is not keeping me from the car. Then its running pretty good. When I said it was sorted, I was only referring to the engine and transmission really. Everything else works, but there are loose ends which all point to dissassembly and what comes after that...

    Which brings me to your comment Chris, cause yer right! Winter driving here can be excellent. I'm feeling all of this out as I go and I keep saying to myself, "who'd a thunk?". Made some goals for summer's end, all the while expecting to near a point where I know the car, the car is in as good condition as it can be as is, and then I'd park it until restoration can begin. I really do have a barn to stow it in for as long as need be, and that space can be brought along for rough body work, the pans, parts storage. No heat though I have assumed that "making of a barn find" would happen by the end of October. Clear my mind with good conscience about the car and actually focus on the SC as far as the madness in the garage is concerned. It has sat there untouched since April. Then there is that timing belt job on the Acura I am 2000 miles away from. No biggie So I may well be out during the winter, but likely in a very different 911

    Now if somebody wanted to plan an outing of early 911's around here, I am game!!! That does remind me of one other issue with winter driving and the green car - I dismantled the Webasto, which means I've interrupted the heat circuit up front and there is no fan now. As far as driving goes, the local PCA bunch does some cool driving. My interest is these early cars tho and folks are predominantely driving newer rigs. Time is the other factor for the Club events, but there are sure some nice folks.

    The cool firm realization is that I am gonna keep the car for a long time. I am in love, apparently the sky is not falling because I bought a six figure car, and in terms of automophilia I am having the most fun I've ever had.

    Let the good times roll friends!!!!!!!!!

  10. #150
    Mike, one of the fixes for the heat soak problems you mention was to install phenolic spacers between head and manifold. This was a factory fix kit that consisted of longer studs, gaskets and the phenolic spacers.
    Early S Registry member #90
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