Kardex question about 911S 1970.

[Thomas lundeval]

A question about Kardex on the 911 S 1970, delivery is 16.10.1973. But the car is a 1970, haven't seen such Kardex before. Anyone have an explanation?

[oliver-911]

The VIN of my 2.2S is 91103009xx and was sold 16.03.1971 according to my Kardex. Looks like it was not unusual for the cars sitting at the dealership or factory before being sold, but 3yrs ?

[HughH]

Thomas
i have only seen a few of 1970 kardexes - the highest being about #1230 That one, and I expect earlier ones, also had the later style build sheets but the kardexes did not have a lot of detail on them like earlier ones. This does not have any of the usual invoice dates on it to show roughly when it was completed (I suspect Jan 1970) BUT ONLY SOME of the 1970 MY ones that I have have that filled out either

The time gap is very unusual IF it was the first owner BUT not if it was originally a factory car that was later sold to a "first non-factory " owner.
It is not unusual (as you know) for a car to be used for a couple of years then sold on .
Is the first word before the date "werk(s)"? if so that would indicate it was a company car first
However the handler number (111) which I presume was a part of the original order details suggests it was an Eduard Winter (Berlin) ordered car??

[gled49]

9110300632 = 12/69

[gulf908]

Hugh

my guess is it was a long term works test car of some sort and was eventually sold out as a used car via that dealer
of interest is the colour number 1414 - which is signal orange - but the 13 ?
also a '70 S would have had XWXs as original not Pirellis (CN 36 ?) - a routine replacement after 3 years ?

cheers
Dennis

[HughH]

Dennis

the 13 is the code for the interior black leatherette and houndstooth

[Thomas lundeval]

Photo of dashboard where you can see the color and product number. Unfortunately, the car is an object of renovation.

[davep]

Is the first word before the date "werk(s)"?

No, "Verk." for Verkauf am translates as sold on.
I wish I could read the remainder of the line. It could have been a demonstrator or a company car for the dealership. Nice options, but not competition oriented.
out of 10 1970 911S I have data on, 5 had Pirelli, 3 had Dunlop, and 2 had Michelin

[911MRP]

Hugh
….
also a '70 S would have had XWXs as original not Pirellis (CN 36 ?) - a routine replacement after 3 years ?

cheers
Dennis

Might it have had It had Veith-Pirelli 185/70 -15 cinturato 72? Agree probably not CN36 in 70. While Pirelli Cinturato CN36 would have been an available replacement option after a few years Veith-Pirelli 185/70 -15 cinturato 72 were the Pirelli tyre used before CN36 adopted I think. While there is focus on on the CN 36 due to their availability today as a well regarded Classic tyre with looks similar to the original but using some modern features and getting Porsche approval I’m not convinced the CN36 was used much by the factory possibly due to timing of its arrival on market. Obviously they were used in the Carrera RS after the summer shutdown as they were for a while the only cover in 215/60 15. There may have been some exceptions where CN36 were on other models as the tyre did exist in 185-77 15 size but would be interested to see evidence of rather than the Cinturato 72 was used in significant scale during the longhood era other than the Carrera RS.

Road test reports of 911 from back in the day sometimes list Veith-Pirelli 185/70 -15 cinturato 72. My point is not to assume mention of Pirelli in longhood era on kardex or build sheet referred to Cinturato CN36 specifically. My feeling is its predecessor the Cinturato 72 gets overlooked as in the shadow of cn36. But in reality the Cinturato 72 was the factory tyre from Pirelli ( among Michelin and Dunlop)

Frere discussed the use of CN36 to replace dated tyres from Dunlop happening during G series. While his words are not explicit when the cn36 replaced the Cinturato 72 on the 911 my impression is the CN36 wasn’t (the commonly) used Pirelli cover on 911 until the G series except for the RS for reason mentioned.

As a datapoint … I have an article of feb 72 for an E so different model and later 911 but it’s still wearing Veith-Pirelli 185/70 -15 Cinturato 72.

The article says it measured lateral acceleration of 0.732g. This was down from the 0.782 they had recorded with Michelin XVR and XAS of 0.782g. However it may not be a fair comparison the Veith-Pirelli shod car was a targa and had no anti roll bars so probably the figure is not all down to the tyres alone.

Not sure when XWX introduced frere shows them in 1975 list. Perhaps there is sometimes blurring between what was original factory chronology and current available offereings. The difference between in what factory used in the day vs what’s now similar available and usable. Can’t use old tyre but they not moderns are what kardex etc reference.

There are threads about tyres elsewhere so happy to park this if picking up on Dennis comment is a distraction

Steve

[TailHappyTorquelessWonder]

A question about Kardex on the 911 S 1970, delivery is 16.10.1973. But the car is a 1970, haven't seen such Kardex before. Anyone have an explanation?

Hi Thomas,

Nice memorabilia of the buyer:



Kind regards,

Erwin