Newly acquired '67 911 - advice needed

[Zain]

Hi Everyone,

I just bought a '67 911 and am keen to make some upgrades to it.

I would love to be able to get it to the performance level of a 911S at least and ideally 200+ hp along with the suspension and brake etc upgrades to go with it.

It currently has some issues idleling reliably but otherwise seems to be in decent condition and fully stock.

What upgrades would you recommend to make it more drivable?

Can I get more power out of this engine easily and reliably or would I need to upgrade to a different one? Would the transmission also need to be changed in this case?

What brake upgrade would you recommend?

And suspension? is there any point getting coil overs? is it an appreciable improvement? do they bolt in or are modifications needed to the body/ chassis?

I'm very new at early 911s so please forgive me if I state the obvious or say something stupid...

Are the differences between a 911S and a base 911 the following only?:

- higher compression pistons, bigger ports and valves and different carbs and cams?
- koni shocks
-anti sway bars back and front
- cross drilled rotors

in which case, would it be easily possible to upgrade mine to 911S specs?

Thank you so much in advance,

Zain

[72targa]

Welcome! I think you’ll find both purists here (“keep it original!”) as well as hot rodders. Help us with some pictures of what you’re working with. If you need advice on how to post pictures, let me know.

[edmayo]

A 67 S only makes 160 HP so short of what you want. You'll probably need to mothball that engine(if matching number) and get a 2.4 or 2.7 S to put in.

[Zain]

edmayo and 72 targa, thank you for your replies.

if one wasnt constrained by matching numbers, what route could be taken then? Boring it out?

any suggestions on where i should look for a 2.4 or 2.7? would I need to change the transmission as well? would such an engine and transmission just 'slot in' or would changes to the frame etc be required?

Thanks,

Zain

[mepstein]

It’s easy do do all the stuff you mentioned with a big enough check book.
The other thing to think about is with the changes you are asking about, did you buy the right car.

[66S]

The 901/05 911N motor has only 10hp less than the 911S motor with the same exhaust. If mpg doesn’t matter then a 2.5 short stroke will do the job. Keeping the 66mm crank allows more top end than the 2.4-2.7 crank, you already have one and an aluminum crank case, add 90mm 2.7 JE pistons with Nicasil cylinders to get the compression ratio to 10-1 or less. 2.7S heads with mild or no porting will work well and cost less. You will have to machine your case, open the cyl. spigots, do the oil bypass mod, and add piston squirters. 46mm carbs may be better than 40mm. 901/05 cams may be sufficient, MOD S is the usual choice. Runs on pump gas. A relatively inexpensive motor to build and a great performer, Your transmission will work OK, no drag racing.

[dpetterson]

It’s easy do do all the stuff you mentioned with a big enough check book.
The other thing to think about is with the changes you are asking about, did you buy the right car.

An excellent point ^^

You might think about is enjoying the car as is for a while and take a slower approach to making any changes.

[RickWhite]

I'd echo the others in starting with the question of whether a 67 is the right platform for what you want to do, particularly if you are talking about coil overs. Some quick advice from someone who enjoys this sort of thing way too much...

1. If the body is straight and mostly original panels, with good paint and an original interior, try to do only things that can be reversed relatively easily - it is a surprisingly large amount of upgrades, but stuff like flares aren't recommended. For that, get a different base (or use your base if the car is a little banged up/not matching numbers).

2. The easiest, highest bang for your buck is improving the suspension. anti-sway bars are worth their weight in gold and the stock S-bars are fine. Have someone go through and replace all of the rubber, and if you need new shocks, go for it. You will be able to do the whole slow car fast thing, and given how light the cars are, you don't need all the HP in the world.

3. The second highest bang for your buck is seats and belts. The "buckets" are sofas. Sport seats are a hugely beneficial upgrade and aren't terribly expensive if you buy replicas (I had Deser seats, they were great, but succumbed to putting originals in my car because I am a Karen). Seatbelts are also a good idea - not just for safety. In my DE/track experience, the best upgrade was a six-point harness. You can't drive a car fast (and comfortably) if you are constantly fighting to stay in your seat.

4. The third highest bang for your buck is tires. This gets tricky given the SWB flares, but deep sixes are a minimum. Save the steelies if that is what you have, but try and put more meat under your car, preferably good meat. Avons if you only drive in the dry and are willing to burn through tires, otherwise Pirelli - I can't get over how well my CN36s stick - I found it hard to spin my car when autocrossing with them.

5. The engine is the last consideration and can get expensive quickly, but is easily reversable (a good mechanic can swap an engine in hours). If you have an aluminum case, then it is a great base for going up to a 2.7/2.8 build. Of course if you have the means, follow Ed's advice and put your engine on a shelf and either buy or build one on a different case. Get the Dempsey book on engines. He lists all the engines that are possible and the characteristics of each. Doing the engine, you'll probably need to modify in the intake and exhaust to let it breath. The engine profile is a personal decision. I have a 2.5 high compression twin-plug beast, a 2.7 RS MFI, and a 2.8 with custom grinds that is a bit between the two. I love the peakiness of early engines. I have no problem dealing with the nuances of early fuel delivery systems (and love the induction noise they deliver). Other people love the reliability and low-end torque of the later engines with electronic fuel injection. All depends on your driving style and where you drive. I probably wouldn't own a longhood if I lived in the city. I drive in a very rural setting with very few stoplights. The only time I am below 4k is when I am angrily stuck behind an old hippie driving a Subaru on a winding road, and I wouldn't love my cars if I didn't have the experience of shifting from 7k in 3rd to 4th. Though I have never smoked crack, I am pretty sure that is a better sensation.

6. The 901 transmission should be able to handle any early engine - the aluminum case you likely have is better than the later magnesiums. If you have that "bag of antlers" feeling shifting, have someone go through your bushings and the transmission to make certain everything is up to snuff. A dialed in 901 should feel just as precise as a 915, though both require more patience than a modern box. A short-shift kit on a 901 is unnecessary in my opinion, but I have it on my race car! A factory short shift kit on a 915 is sublime.

7. Brake upgrades are unnecessary imho. Porsche has always had too much brakes, which is a good thing. Your car is light. It doesn't need much. On my S/T, which has a power to weight (in a very narrow RPM band!) equivalent to a modern GT3, I use earlyS calipers with track pads. I have no problems outbreaking folks. There are lots of options to upgrade, but I'd probably try to learn threshold breaking first and see how quickly you can stop without lock-up.

Probably too much info...but again, so much of the pleasure I get in owning these things is in continual modification. Ownership is about learning to drive the car, recognizing that it isn't always easy. You will stall in traffic. Things will break requiring more than regular maintenance (which needs to be done religiously!). You'll need the occasional flatbed. Owning an early car (and actually driving it) takes a little perseverance, but the rewards are innumerable and you have to be a little but of a masochist. After four continuous years of upgrades and fixes, I drove my targa across the country with zero problems. None. It didn't require a drop of oil. These cars are incredibly reliable once properly sorted and driven regularly.

Ultimately you have to figure out what you want from the car. Most people these days seem to want the aesthetic combined with regular drivability, hence the popularity of 3+ L engines and the 915 in "hotrods." I'm a bit of the reverse - addicted to the peaky on-cam kick in the ass when you get up in the rev-range and the lightness of early car's steering - a thin steering wheel so I can use the tips of my fingers to steer. Every time I get in one of my cars, I feel like I am dancing, down to the floor-hinged pedals.

[Richy]

I'm with ED , if you can't enjoy and appreciate the car as is , buy a newer 911 with a bigger engine . I personally like the 2.0 liter engines , but if you don't , get a different car . Also , the first 911 normals with Solex camshafts and the new style exhaust
were too close in performance to the S so the cams were changed and the heat exchanger outlets were welded to restrict the opening , so changing the camshafts and exhaust is a nice easy upgrade . In my opinion don't build a 2.4 tractor engine .
As previously mentioned a 2.5 built with a 66 mm stroke crankshaft is a nice engine ?

[Zain]

Guys, thank you SO much for all the replies, i really appreciate it.

Just to give you some background:

I live in Pakistan where the import of cars over 5yrs old is not allowed so basically what that means is that the number of classics in the country is EXTREMELY limited and even if in the off chance you manage to find one, you can expect to pay a premium of 20 to 50% over global prices. In addition because of the lack of classics and their trade, the eco system isn't very well developed and has led to lack of experienced resources and general know how. The exception to this are old Mercedes and American muscle cars. turns out they were very popular from day 1...

My 911 in question: I've been after it since 2021 and have only now managed to convince the previous owner to sell it to me for a halfway reasonable price. It is probably one of 5 911s in the country, quite possibly one of 3.

I LOVE it. I've always wanted one and am really pleased to have finally managed to get one. The car was restored by the previous owner, repainted, the interior reupholstered and the engine rebuilt.
He did the bare minimum necessary to get it into am easily sellable state so nothing has been done to a very high level. I haven't yet had the chance to check if its matching numbers yet (literally got the car 2 days ago) but will try and do later today. I would expect this not to be the case. from what I am told, he salvaged a wrecked 911 overseas to get the parts to complete this. Regarding this, please advise what all I'm looking for and where to find it. (please don't hate me for taking the shortcut and asking this basic info rather than digging it up, currently dont have any idea of 911 numbering series'/ nomenclature)

Given the dearth of cars available, as I said, this is realistically the only classic Porsche I'll be able to buy. Luckily its among my top 2 faves so I'm very pleased. I'd love to be able to a make it something of a daily driver and get the most I can from the platform. Let me clarify what that means to me: Id like to get the maximum performance possible without losing any outward originality and without modifying the frame/ chassis. (The only reason I asked about coilovers is becasue i'd read about them someone and wanted to get more info and your opinions as people who currently know 1000x more than me. I am 100% not in favor of them, just trying to increase my very limited knowledge)

Id mentioned the perfomance of the 911S as a base goal because as I understand that's possible with the car retaining its original character and frame and was hoping for slightly higher given newer tech since then e.g. brake cylinders, rotors, pad material, cams etc

Incorporating all the advice received, this is what I'm thinking which would be in keeping with my goals with the car, please let me know what you think:

Engine : Solex cams, new style exhaust. What sort of output could we expect with this? 150? if we're able to bump this just a little higher, that would be amazing. what else can be done?

For info: a 2.5 or 2.7 would be much heavier? how much power would that be and would it sit on the same mount positions or would adjustments be needed? also, just so I know, what sort of price do these run and how available are they? if I went this route, I would shelve my current engine and buy a new case etc to build. (Bought the book on engines by Dempsey, thanks Rick, should be delivered later this week)

Carbs: Where could I find a rebuild kit for the carbs? any modifications recommended? Would ideally like to keep the originals unless they wont be up to the job..

Suspension: Anti Sway bars + new rubbers + Koni/ Bilstein shocks. Is there a single kit that I could buy for all the rubbers? What sort should I get and from where? what sway bars? Stock S or is there something that would be better? Which shocks out of the two would you recommend? Would this bring up the handling to the level of the 911S? (our benchmark)

Brakes: 911S calipers with track pads. Where could I find these? and till I do, can I run track pads on my current calipers? Would it be beneficial to update discs? please recommend which ones if so. Any advantage in upgrading the master cylinder etc? I havent inspected mine yet but i expect it to not be in the best of health.

Transmission: will have the bushings inspected and replaced. please recommend where to get them from and what type.

Pedals: This is the only 911 I've ever driven so not sure if this is standard: there is extremely long travel in the clutch, any way to improve that? is there a sort of pedal box upgrade that one could easily do without any serious modification? I've seen these for old Alfa Romeos, really make a big difference...

Instrumentation cluster : All the gauges don't seem to be working and not sure the ones that are working are reliable. How should i go about restoring them? any kits available? Any modern upgrades that I could do for these? e.g. newer sensors etc..

Wheels and tyres: its come Fuchs wheels, not steelies luckily. Were there diff variants in the fuchs or just the one type? will inspect today. Regarding tyres, i think ill go with the pirellis, what exact spec do you recommend?

Guys, thank you all SO much for your help, this would be impossible for me otherwise and i'd probably end up doing something really stupid or just getting stuck in indecision.

Best,

Zain