What rear sway bar for SWB?

[Fritz A. Ficke]

My 67S is stock except for 6 inch wide tires.
When I track the car it lifts the inside front tire easliy with even mild cornering. I have the 38 year old stock sway bars and torsion bars and was wondering what a good rear sway bar would be? I figure that would be a good place to start. I like to drive on the street and only track the car once in a while maybe three our four times a year. I must lift a tire even on the street but do not have corner workers telling me about it. I am getting tired of hearing " is it really faster going around the corner on three wheels" " maybe you should think about one of those old british three wheel cars"
Oh and the car is not 'tail happy' now it seems to push or plow. I can not swing the rear end around easily.
Please help, Thanks in advance, Fritz

[ttweed]

I am using the 18mm rear bar from the '74-77 911S on my SWB car. It is a bolt on with just the new size bushings required. You can go up to the 21mm Carrera bars if you are willing to modify the connection to the droplinks. Be advised this will put a lot of stress on the swaybar consoles as well as the droplinks. I would recommend reinforcing both if you go that route. I have that setup on my '73, and I recently had to go to the WEVO ARB consoles and weld up the droplinks. The stock consoles are not sized for the bigger 21mm bar, and the bushings end up too thin and wear quickly.

I am kind of surprised that your SWB is not loose with the stock setup-- most of them are a little tail-happy, especially with equal-sized tires front and rear. I have never had a push with any of mine. Are you sure your rear bar is working well? Bushings in good shape? Mounts not cracked or loose? How is the alignment? Part of the beauty of the SWB for me is how easily they will rotate and throttle-steer. You are missing something! I use the 18mm bar from the early Turbo in front with the 18mm rear bar on my '67S--I think it would be too loose without it.

I wouldn't worry about lifting a wheel too much. The inside front is always light when cornering hard and accelerating in these cars, so it is never going to do much work. There was a guy who used to consistently lift his front wheel 6-10" off the ground in corners at our events, but he was still very fast on the course, even on 3 wheels. Bigger torsion bars in the back will definitely help cure that rear roll, too, which is what he finally did.

TT

[Fritz A. Ficke]

Tom, Thanks for the help. This is what I want, a bolt on option. 18mm is what I was thinking, also. I will take your advice and use an 18 in the front.
My long wheel base 911'swere very fun to throtle steer. I was really hoping to get more with the SWB By the way a friend saw you run in San Digeo with your 67S and recomended I take your advice.

[bob tilton]

Tom
Break it down for us SWB guys. Let's say a 50/50 car (street/track):
F/R:
Sway Bars
Torsion Bars
Struts
Wheels
Tires
Bushings
Additional info


I ask because I may revisit my susp but this is the current set-up:
F/R:
Sway Bars 15/15
Torsion Bars 19/24
Struts Konis
Wheels Deep 6s
Tires Yoko Avs Intermediates 205/60
Bushings Welt poly
Additional info - Sway away adj spring plates, 1" wheels spacers Rear

[John Fusco]

Bob;

How does your car handle set up like that ?

John

[ttweed]

Tom
Break it down for us SWB guys. Let's say a 50/50 car (street/track)

Bob-
As with most setup questions, I would have to answer with a big "It depends!" The major variables are the use of the car and driver preferences as to handling and ride comfort. Your setup looks fine and very similar to mine with the exception of the ARBs (I use 18mm instead of 15) and the wheel/tire combo (I use 6" w/205/60 (Michelin Pilot) on the street and 7" w/205/50 (Kumho V710) for the track) with no spacers in the rear. I find that having the taller tires for the street helps with ride height and comfort, and the lower profile is an advantage on the track in lowering ride height and gearing. I would also say that alignment settings (which have been omitted from your listing) are very much integral to the handling equation, as is corner balance. My autox alignment preferences were covered in this thread.

My SWB car is set up for autox, and my '73 for the big tracks. The type of tracks you are running makes a big difference in how you might set up the car. In autox, the lower speeds and constant turning and transitions dictate a softer and looser setup than what you need for high speed venues. At the two major tracks here in Lo Cal, Willow Springs and Ca. Speedway, you can ENTER corners at 120+ mph and exit at 140+. The emphasis at such a venue is on stability and aero effects are much more important. The kind of autox setup that facilitates quick turn-in and easy rotation of the car at low speeds is totally un-nerving on such a track, as is the aero configuration of a stock SWB body. What can be an unacceptable push in an autox situation can turn into confidence-inspiring stability at high speeds.

While I have kept the stock 19/24 T-bars and Koni shocks in my '67S, I am going to 21/26 and Bilsteins on the '68. I had those in the '66 I sold years ago, and I think it is a very good street/track compromise for the light early cars. The adjustable spring plates and Turbo tie rods are nice upgrades. For big track use in hot weather, the management of heat in the brakes becomes an issue that never arises in autox. Race seats and restraints have to be considered a necessity for any car that sees track duty, IMHO. Having to brace yourself against sliding around in a stock seat is very counter-productive to concentrating on your driving.

The '67S has been a very satisfying autox car, but I am loathe to take it out on the big tracks. It will stay with any of the stock Porsches up to the GT3 in an autox, but even at a smaller track like Streets of Willow, I am pointing by the more powerful, later cars all the time.

The right tool for the right job is not just an idle phrase....

TT

[bob tilton]

Thanks Tom! I just dropped the car off this morning to have the rear suspension examined and depending on how much it gets torn down I may change a few things. I have this thud sound when the rear susp takes a hit and could not resolve it on my own. I refurbished the CV axles and inspected a few other things but ended up scratching my head.
I will try and dig up the numbers from when the car was aligned/cornerbalanced. Also the car does have turbo tie rods.

John Fusco - IMO the car handles very nicely although it does sway a bit in the corners. When Tom mentioned 18/18 sway bars from a later model I decided to inquire as I think this would be a good route for me and my existing set-up. Keep in mind I have only driven my car and have nothing to compare it to.

[John Fusco]

The factory specs for circuit courses was 16/16 sways - has anyone ever tried that set up. I've never even seen a 16 front for sale anywhere.

Thanks Bob.

I could listen to TT talk set up all day

John