Trying to get the true value of a 1970T Targa

[Marvin_Hecht]

I am trying to get into a 911 at a reasonable cost-- I know this is not a good thing, but otherwise I will never get into a 911, and I want one really badly. I like the idea that an early car will go up in value (maybe not this one --keep reading) but I just want something to drive around in daily instead of my 1986 BMW which I have had for 19 years now.

I am currently considering a 1971T Targa (see pics below). The owner is asking $4,500 but will take $4,000. A friend looked at it and thought it was a pretty solid car for the money, and snapped a few pics. He is going to snap some more. I would have to drive about 350 miles to see it in person and/or pick it up. Here are the details:

1971 Porsche 911T Targa.
White ext (originally Orange) / Black interior
California car, and has been, smog-exempt (since pre-1975)
Serial numbers - they match and lookup shows a 71 911T as expected.
Car serial 9111113321 / Engine serial 6117966
-matching serial number tags
-speedo shows 55,000 miles (and last two owners say it is been mostly garaged and IS 55,0000)

History
-has been garaged since 1989, owned mostly by older gentleman (current owner has had it for a year)
-No receipts except for the last few years (may be possible to track
down a prior owner)
-Clean title -owner has pink slip in hand that was signed over but not dated from an older gentlemen in Hemmett, California
-Owner has license plates to go with the car but has not registered
the car (even though it only would cost $80) so they are sitting in a box.
-Given that Carfax does not go back further than 1981, I am not sure how to check/verify ownership - I have the number for the new plates that were issued but not put on and the serial numbers of the car-- Is there any public database (say that Carfax draws from) where I can type in the serial number of a car and get its ownership history, or will the DMV tell me this info?

Exterior
- No collisions-front clips is very clean (current owner was also impressed)
-Repaint in non-original white within the last 2 years - unfortunately it was a Earl Scheib / Maaco "cheapie" type job in which the paint looks livable but not great, door jambs were done, engine bay was not done but rattlecanned black insted. Horn grills in the front and headlight rings were painted white
-Currently has a pseudo-RSR body kit, but on at time of repaint, but original bumpers included in the sale
--Either no rust or next-to-no rust in the front of the car. My friend stuck his head in the front and could not see any. Owner claims there is definately some paint scraped off and may be light surface rust (very light and scrapeable not cancerous) under the front spare tier if you take it out and look behind it.
-My friend has not yet pulled up the rear mats to see the condition of the pans-he wants to jack it up to see and will do so.
-Targa top leaks and needs recovering (you can see the part where water would go in). The car has been outside lately but has a car cover
-the front wheels polished fuchs are original and would stay with the car. The rear wheels are some deep-dish Fuchs that the current owne had lying around (he is a VW Bug person) and he would put back the original (skinnier) Fuchs on the rear and keep his deep dish rear Fuchs for his Bug projects.
-Not sure what is up with the front hood not closing (see picture) need to find out more on that.

Interior
-all gauges working
-Ignition switch is gone, you have to start with a screwdriver. Not the current owner, but the previous owner lost the keys when it was garaged.
-Some stitches coming loose in seats.
-Window rollup handles missing and 1 door pocket in need
of replacement (current owner was quoted $500 to replace both at a local shop). He is a VW bug person and not computer savvy -- he realizes if you knew more about Porsche's and/or were Internet savvy you could find these somewhere cheap, but he just wants to sell this car and get back to his VWs (he was kind of shocked after he bought this car and started learning about the price of Porsche parts).

Engine
-The carbs pop a bit when the engine is cold. Carbs need tuning by a professional for sure.
-Not much information on the engine - current owner has also had
it sitting mostly - has taken it for a spin around the block but
does not have it registered so can't drive it.

Legistics
-I am having my friend take some more detailed pics first
-Would need to figure out how to coordinate a PPI (near Riverside, California) given it is not registered and can't really be on the road.
-I would do the repairs over time--but would try to get the targa top recovered (how much $$$$?)
and the carbs adjusted right away (aprox how much for that?).

Possible Valuation
-I would be interested in knowing aprox how much the car is valued in its current condition and/or if I bought it and fixed the things tha need fixing. I realize the color change and cheap paint job is not helping here.
-I know these values have been going up, but it is a T model(not an E or S) is a less desirable Targa (I would rather have a coupe myself), has been sitting a long time, needs some interior/exterior repairs. So 4-4.5k seems right, or what do you guys think?
-The owner said he saw one in less good condition sell on Ebay for 8k (but who knows if it went through).
-Excellence (05 values) gives a range of around poor 9,811 to good 11,155 to high 14,993, but I know that Excellence figures can be high.
-For the money (4k), I have seen cars that are rusted out and don't run, rusted out but run, run but smoke nonstop blue... you get the picture.
-I am a little worried about the state of the engine and would need to get a PPI for sure-- if anybody knows shops in LA or Riverside that specialize in early 911s and that can adjust carbs, that would be appreciated too.

Thanks Marvin.

[BOYER73S]

At worst case there will be $4000 worth of parts for E bay for sure!!!

Engine bay should be black paint anyway.

[CurtEgerer]

If it runs good, $4000 would be a good deal and you might be able to flip it for $8000 or so with a well-written eBay ad. As a basis for something you want to keep, it is going to depend, almost totally, on a PPI. Like Clyde says, you could part it out for $4000, if you had to, so you won't lose money. The concern is putting money into the car after purchase. Given its condition, the 55k mileage claim is highly suspect. And without documentation, it is meaningless anyway. The need for new paint is a given - done correctly, that's a minimum of $8000 right off the bat. Sounds like you're not real thrilled with the "RSR" look so new bumpers are in order along with the right trim pieces, horn grills, headlight rings, etc. - probably add another $1500. Then there's the ___, ____, ____, ____ (fill in the blanks with various engine, suspension, interior needs). The point being: you could quickly have $20,000+ into this project. At that price level, you can start looking at ready-to-drive, completed cars that need only minor repairs.

[fg1227]

curt's right
you will need to put $30,000 plus to make into a $20,000 T;AND THAT'S JUST A MAYBE

[MdJohn]

Hello everyone, this is my first post. And yes, I've sent in my dues. I think you have a great find. Depends on your goals for the car and how much you're willing to do yourself. First, never think of a car as an investment (there are of course exceptions). If it happens to appreciate, so much the better, but buy the car because it will be something to have fun with, not make you money. If you are going to have a shop to all the work, yes, could easily spend $30,000. You could easily spend 8k or more on a paint job. But you don't have to. Do the prep work yourself and for a fraction of the $8k you would have a great paint job. Before I purchased my 69 T a year and a half ago, I hadn't so much as change my own oil. A shop did everything. No way could I afford to shop out every thing on a 35 year old car. So in the past year and a half I have replaced all my front end components (tie rods, ball joints, bushings, struts, shocks, rotors, calipers and pads, brake lines), rebuilt my Weber carbs, Completed major tune up, including valve adjustment, dropped engine to replace clutch and pressure plate. Total spent so far on parts and tools, about $2000. To answer some of your questions, here are some approx numbers for recovering Targa top:diy $225, shop $600+, rebuild carbs and tune, diy $125, shop $700+. Your car in question will take work and money. I'm sure anything rubber will need replacing. Bushings, lines, boots, gromets, perhaps tires. Major tune up, including valve adjustment before you do anything with the carbs. That said, If the car is as represented, I'd take it in a minute. If the deal doesn't work out for you, or you purchase and have second thoughts, please let me know.

[robmog]

4k for a running rust free t is a great deal these days.
but it will cost you to make it perfect.
however,if you're not in a hurry and a bit handy it could be
a great project. sadly investment grade cars start out expensive
before they appreciate. have fun and good luck.
bob