What would you do?

[jetdriver21]

I know which way I am leaning on this but I wanted the group's opinion and advice.

I got a call yesterday about a 1966 911 that will be coming on the market soon. The car is a older restoration (1990) with documentation of the restoration work and sporadic documention of the history of the car. The car is said to have approx 8k miles since being redone. Details of the restore are rebuilt engine and trans, new paint (color change to polo red), complete interior, new floor pans.

Current condition according to seller (subject to PPI): excellent mechanicals, most original (or replacement original) pieces retained to include wood wheel, good dash. Even though this is a northern car, said to be always garaged, the rust is very minor (suspect significant rust prior to restoration). Seller tells me there are about 3 very small bubbles in the paint and the underside/suspension is very clean. Numbers match on the car. Wheels are not original and unknown which type. Seller says he has original wheels that go with the car.

Sorry for not having pictures. The seller is planning to send me some but says he doesnt do the internet thing much.

Here's the really good part. He is hoping to get at least $15k for the car.

[preS]

What would you do?

In which light? The price is good to buy it at. The blue 911 that has been on ebay a couple of times (1965 though, see other thread) has been bid up to double that price initially. W/o seeing this car I would think it's price tag would start w/ $20. So at $15 you can buy it and enjoy it and sell it later on and still can't your money out of it.

If you are question is in the light of advice to the seller you can tell him that his price is (too) low.

Just my $.02

Richard

[304065]

Where is the R U S T?

Older restoration 1990 before MIG welders = gaswelds or brazing

New Paint, color change, conceals a multitude of sins

Minor rust is probably major rust if you know where to look

Bubbles in the paint = Rust

Northern car = RUST

No pictures? Why not?

Don't go crazy until you see the condition of the body. I have no knowledge of this particular car but I have seen dozens of early 911s to base my concerns on. Including three of my own.

[gunzel]

Ido not understand your comment," 1990 before MIG welders?" I have had a TIG welder from before 1970, and a MIG prior to 1965.

Where is the R U S T?

Older restoration 1990 before MIG welders = gaswelds or brazing

New Paint, color change, conceals a multitude of sins

Minor rust is probably major rust if you know where to look

Bubbles in the paint = Rust

Northern car = RUST

No pictures? Why not?

Don't go crazy until you see the condition of the body. I have no knowledge of this particular car but I have seen dozens of early 911s to base my concerns on. Including three of my own.

[teenchy]

I wish I knew what to tell you. I don't think I have the Porsche-buying-at-a-distance protocol down; otherwise I'd own one by now.

From many sources I've understood the drill to be: get description, get photos, ask questions, ask for service records, request PPI, get PPI, go/no-go based on PPI and availability of records. Last month I passed on a car that had no records that I now see may have been just fine. This week I'd reached the point of setting up a PPi with another seller who, instead of replying whether he'd agree to allow the PPI, told me he'd accepted a down payment from another prospective buyer and was expecting to close the deal in the next few days. (When I've sold cars in the past I've always told prospectives whether there were others interested and how fast those others were moving; I'll leave that aside for now.)

It seems now that many cars are being bought sight unseen or with limited info and without PPIs. I'd attribute that to the weak US dollar but many of these buyers are in the US so I don't think that tells the whole story.

Good luck with your decision.

[tfiv]

There was not much love for the SWB 911 back in 1990, and the selling prices were very low. Although things cost less back then, even a quality paint job would likely exceed the value of the whole car. It seems pretty unlikey that the "restoration" will be to any sort of standard acceptable today. I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

I remember buying a rust free 67S out of the local paper in '92 for $4500. It needed a restoration, but had a fresh top end, and drove great. According to the seller I was the only serious interest in the car.

[gruen911]

There was not much love for the SWB 911 back in 1990, and the selling prices were very low. Although things cost less back then, even a quality paint job would likely exceed the value of the whole car. It seems pretty unlikey that the "restoration" will be to any sort of standard acceptable today. I wouldn't get too excited just yet.

I remember buying a rust free 67S out of the local paper in '92 for $4500. It needed a restoration, but had a fresh top end, and drove great. According to the seller I was the only serious interest in the car.

On the other hand, there were people back in the 80' and 90's who really loved their early 911's and spent serious money keeping them in good shape. I never got into early 911's back in the 90's beacuse they were cheap (or at least cheaper than any other 60'/70's euro sports car). I did it for the enjoyment for the car's incomparable performance. There are plenty of others out there who have done the same. Look at some of the SReg and R gruppe guys who have spent stupid money on building their own perfect beast. Not because they ever thought they could get their money back. Rather because they wanted the perfect high performance 911 (at least in their minds).
The ironic thing is that many of these guys if they sold now, would more than liekley get their money back on resale. That's simply a windfall.

[Macroni]

1st: Have a local to the car Early S or Pelican go look at the car.
2nd: Place a deposit or withdraw immediately upon after initial review.
3rd: Negotiate a purchase predicated upon a PPI if possible.

The early cars are selling quickly under $20,000 due to the low precieved risk. There are cars that you have to be especially quick on the trigger with in the current market. I am not an expert but the way I see it is in no paticular order;
Ss [especially 73s]
Early Build cars
Softies [nice ones under $20, I do not believe exist]
Sportos [don't seem to hang around]

Hope this helps.

[304065]

No doubt the TIG and MIG existed but these were not widely used. I have seen dozens of prior restorations with the telltale brazing rod from gaswelding. Compare that to the present day when a decent MIG can be had for a few hundred dollars.

[teenchy]

1st: Have a local to the car Early S or Pelican go look at the car.
2nd: Place a deposit or withdraw immediately upon after initial review.
3rd: Negotiate a purchase predicated upon a PPI if possible.

The early cars are selling quickly under $20,000 due to the low precieved risk. There are cars that you have to be especially quick on the trigger with in the current market. I am not an expert but the way I see it is in no paticular order;
Ss [especially 73s]
Early Build cars
Softies [nice ones under $20, I do not believe exist]
Sportos [don't seem to hang around]

Hope this helps.

^ What he said.

My slow trigger finger and reticence re undocumented repairs has cost me two nice Sporto coupes in the last month. Here I thought these cars were the unloved members of the early 911 family. I guess more people are turning on to these cars and getting over any stigma associated with them. I can only view that as a positive, as folks will begin to work to preserve and gorw the Sporto knowledge base...maybe even start reproducing Sporto-specific seals and other parts(?).