Rarest sport seat ever?

I purchased this seat at Hershey this year. The seller described it as a "1600 Carrera seat". I looked at it carefully to see if it was aluminum or steel, I thought all the GT seats were aluminum, this one was steel. The seat is looks like it has the original vinyl, with basket weave centers, and has perlon on the back and sides, it has horse hair padding. Its mounted on a steel hinging/ sliding base allowing it to tilt forward and is adjustable forward and back.

Page 66 of Bret Johnsons book "The 911&912 Porsche"
Describes Sport seat options: "[For 1965 and 1966 there were two alternatives designated as "Recaro" and "Ferrari"] [ The Ferrari seat bore more than a little resemblance to the Speedster seat of the 1950s]

http://www.racecar.co.uk/edmondharri...?ProductID=105

"Original Carrera Abarth & 356 GT seat
Fitted to the B GT and Carrera Abarth, I cannot tell you just how rare this seat is(differs slightly from speedster seat and with more support) in absolutely superb original condition with original material cover and horse hair padding. Black vinyl / cord. Perfect seat for the perfect car. You will never find another !"

The pictures in Brett Johnsons book and on the edmond Harris site look identical.

last picture is the Harris seat

I think this is the same seat used in late 356 Carreras and very early 911s.

Those are 356 speedster seats.

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Originally Posted by 58cab

Those are 356 speedster seats.

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I have a Speedster, they are not Speedster seats. I was also with one of the best 356 restorers in the country, he said its not a Speedster seat.

Pardon me. I should have said They LOOK like 356 speedster seats. How are they different? Did the factory install these seats?
Mike

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Originally Posted by super9064

I have a Speedster, they are not Speedster seats. I was also with one of the best 356 restorers in the country, he said its not a Speedster seat.

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Intriguing - would like to know more if these were avaliable in the earliest 911s, beyond hearsay and second hand anecdotes. Can you describe in detail what makes these vary from the 356 seats. I know for a fact that the Speedster and other 356 seats came in both steel and aluminum. What other details give this seat away as different.
Thanks.

Rob:

You're right. They are not Speedster seats.

That's my '65 912 on page 66 of Brett's book, and 356 experts have confirmed that for me. I shot the photos, still have the seats (and car), and would still like to know exactly what they are. Until I learn more, I'll take Brett's word for it.

While restoring the car in the late 1980s, I bought them from classified ads in Panorama for less than the cost of re-doing the original seats, which weren't that great for autocrossing and time-trialing anyway. The driver's seat's original corduroy, at age 45 or so, is getting a bit tatty, and like yours, the material inside the seatback vents has loosened, so I need to get the local upholstery whiz to fix it. Whatever, these are the most confortable seats for sporting driving that I've ever had a in car.

I am intrigued because I was planning on building a Speedster seat for my '65 as a sport drivers seat from a repro shell. Since these look so close and it seems we've confirmed they were available for the 911, I'd love to know the difference so if I go this route, my little repro seat can look as correct as possible (well, as close as it can w/ brown houndstooth inserts and brown perf leather :))

I photographed a pair in original condition a few years ago. Can't remember the car. May have been a Super 90 GT.

Tom

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Originally Posted by kenikh

Intriguing - would like to know more if these were avaliable in the earliest 911s, beyond hearsay and second hand anecdotes. Can you describe in detail what makes these vary from the 356 seats. I know for a fact that the Speedster and other 356 seats came in both steel and aluminum. What other details give this seat away as different.
Thanks.

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There is a picture of the seat mounted in a 911 in Johnsons book, I've wondered about it for years because I've never actually seen one, or even another picture of one. The one in the book shows a it as the drivers seat with the Recaro sport seat for the passenger.

Details that are different, well the Speedster went out of production in 1959, there were cars built after 1959, that could still be ordered super90Gts, Carrera Gts. Some were made out of Aluminum.

I have seen the later GT seats, they differ in mounting and upholstering.
The Speedster seats have a sharper edge angle on the front of the seat bottom. The GT seat, with the original upholstering, is much more rounded, the padding on the side is also thicker. The Speedster has a wooden mounting frame, while the GT has steel.

The Speedster seats, were not available with basket weave vinyl, or perlon.
they came in leather or smooth vinyl with piping to match body color.

The front of this seat is thin drooping, like the one pictured in Johnsons book.

I think that after the Speedsters went out of production, there were still plenty of seat shells around, and were used up on later cars. But since they were later cars they used different materials and improved the mounting. In 1965 they were still building 356GTs, along with the 911, if they were putting that seat in the 356, it logical to assume they would but in a 911 as well.

I would like to see any more photos of this seat or a "Ferrari" seat listed in any factory literature.

You guys type to fast:p