1968 T/R - "Out Of Africa"

Thank you Tom, why didn't I try to explain it like that!

To add to your post:

A. Out of Africa T/R - Yes that is correct.

B. Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored T/R - I don't know if this car started as a T/R or was a T that was subsequently modified with "Sports Purposes" parts? Maybe Hugh can add something on this.

C. Can't add anything on the possible third other than the story (and I stress story, nothing more) that I heard was that the T/R that Josh is I believe referring to was one of the RHD cars and it happenened in the UK or maybe on mainland Europe in the early '70's?

Tim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flunder

Do I have this right?


B. Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored T/R

The interesting picture being discussed, showing the Gordon C.R. Crow sponsored car entered on behalf of the factory in the East African Safari, and which bears his name on its rear quarter panels, is an entirely different car (NOT Bantam's Out of Africa car) with Ch Nbr 11820427 with Engine Nbr 908058.

It seems that Mr. Crow imported this T/R as a used race unit into Africa, which sounds convincing given the factory's penchant for getting full value out of its race and rallye chassis.

This car was originally supplied by Porsche as a LHD unit and according to Hugh H was subsequently converted to RHD locally in Australia in 1969. I believe such conversion is a pre-requisite to registering any vehicle privately imported into Australia.

However, this T/R appears now to be LHD in the current color photo showing the car at a race meeting - with a pranged LF fender and proud owner in driving togs.

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Tom

This car was originally a werks car for acropolis, marathon (part of the team that had the famous R sporto that won) and Spa.

it went to Africa for Edgar Hermann in the 1968 safari - not sure if that was a werks entry or not, or whther the sponsorship was anything more that Porsche getting its agent recognition, but it was at least semi werks. It then went back to the factory to be rebuilt and was one of the 3 factory prepared (entered?) 1968 london-sydney cars again with Hermann

I am unsure about its complete origin but everything I have been told is that the chassis and engine numbers are as I have shown above.

I dont know what qualifies as a T/R but if it has the chassis number as described and the werks put a comp spec S engine into it with enough modifications to enter it in the events described in my view it probably should be called a T/R

It is LHD again after being converted back to original configuration but was RHD from 1969 until recently

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 304678

??

To me it looks like all 3 pictures show a LHD. What am I missing?

It looks to me that the license plate was used on more than 1 car?

Richard

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Richard

to the best of my knowledge (and the information published on articles on the car and when it has been for sale) it is the same car all along. The first time the license plate was changed was when it was registered in Australia in 1968/9. As shown above it is now LHD again but was RHD from 1969 to recent times

I have checked my records and they show that Edgar Hermann (not the werks) owned the car when he sold it to Alan Hamilton at the end of the London Sydney rally in 1968. Given the history of the factory using competition cars for 2 or 3 outings before selling them to favored clients , I would guess that Hermann bought it after the Marathon de la Route on the Nurburgring in August 1967 and had it as a private entry (but with werks and the distributors support) in Africa.

I have this in its history file that i have put together from various sources "In early 1968, Edgar Herrmann took delivery of the car in Kenya, after it had been prepared by the Porsche Factory Competition Department at Weissach, for the East African Safari that Easter."


and then this

"At the completion of the 1968 East African Safari the car returned to Weissach and together with two other cars were totally re-built for the 12,000 mile London to Sydney Marathon"

and

Tom

I just noted your reference to "pranged LF fender". It isn't; it is a trick of the light - reflection - combined with the fact that both horn grills are absent - on one side to attach tow hook. (the car is maintained immaculately - but then driven in anger as well)

Tim

sorry to hijack the thread
I hope this helps you somewhat anyway

regards

Given that it was a fairly complete car my aim with the restoration will be to preseve as much of the "original" as possible so these following items will go back on "as is" having cleaned up fairly well.

The bonnet badge although clearly not perfect after the attention of the African sun is still good enough in my opinion and reflects the cars age, my only worry is that it may be vulnerable to the UK's winter elements after losing some of its enamel protection but will have to see how it goes.

The horn grilles are not bad at all, again not perfect but they belong to the car so should stay as is.

Final picture is of the manufacturers plate which had been covered in filler/undercoat but has responded well to gentle cleaning....for some reason my delight at getting this back to this condition at the weekend at the expense of cutting the grass was not fully appreciated!

Tim

The car came with RHD H1 headlights, fortunately the previous owner had also purchased a spare pair of the fairly hard to find RHD H1's although they were pretty rough. Together with a NOS outer ring I had I stripped them down, cleaned everything and repainted the metal bowls....I even managed to save the stickers.....bit sad given that nobody will see them but it all becomes a bit addictive!

This has enabled me to restore the cars original lights and give me one mint spare for that inevitable day when one takes a hit.

Although I will never have the skill/time/space/equipment to take on the major work I am really enjoying working on some of the ancillary parts and it really does give you a far better understanding and I suppose a bond with the car.

My next project was the front and rear light units which I will post soon which will just about bring things up to date.

Tim

Both front and rear light units were intact if a little tired and with lenses that had lost most of their colour so I used the excellent advice contained within the EarlyS technical section to replace with some "Bosch" lenses I had obtained. All the units cleaned up pretty well and it is pleasing that the car can retain all of its original lights.

Tim

Looking good!!

They are looking great Tim - it is fantastic that not only can you save them but they come up so well. It must be especially good that you have done them yourself :)

By the way you, or someone earlier in the thread, were asking about the Vin of the Hamilton T/R

After great work by one of the board members, Jeff, who went and personally inspected the car, I can report that the important numbers are:
vin: 118 2 0897
engine 408 1453.

That means that the 4 RHD cars we know about were all produced within a tight time frame:

the first TMD 7F 118 2 0828 (engine ??? )
then 2BRX 118 2 0884 (engine 408 1283)
then Hamilton's 118 2 0897 (engine 408 1453)
then "Africa" 118 2 0912 (engine 408 1479)

Given there is supposed to have been one more it would be interesting to see where it fitted in

It was I that was asking about the VIN of Hamilton's car. I happened to be cruising the Type 901 Register and saw that Jeff had planned a visit to see it. So this morning I got the photos I needed from Jeff, and this evening I get confirmation.
What I find interesting is that half of the 1968 911T that I have in my database are TR's; probably because they are special cars, and the non-TR's were Euro cars that likely did not survive long. Moreover, the majority of the TR's are late in the production from 11820800 up to last VIN 11820928. Also the "S" engines are very late production.

Hugh - Yes really pleased to have saved the lights and done the work myself, given that all the bodywork is original (other than the missing engine lid) I hope to really try and keep/refurbish as much as possible.

Which brings me onto my big issue....THE ARCHES

Having said initially that I intended to return the arches to how they left the factory i.e. flat I presume to match the original 5.5" and 6" wheels which I have, with the aid of some great input and advice, I am now having second thoughts!

We have discovered that the front arches have also had some work done to accommodate wider wheels (arches rolled and we think slightly reprofiled at the front of the arch for turning clearance - I had not engaged my brain because I have all four original wheels after their four replacements were stolen) so to go back to stock would now require work on all four wings and would really be moving away from my aim of as little interference as possible; especially in areas such as the near side rear wing with the engine lid release delete and the bumpers that have been modified slightly to meet the new profile.

Equally having spent more time studying the arches in detail it is clear that they were better done than I first realised and that to some degree were looking "strange" due to the stance of the car and the scrap wheels I currently have it sitting on. The arches have their own character which I now believe it would be a shame to lose; from studying plenty of photos their profile looks just like the ones on the photo Hugh posted of the Hamilton T/R cornering in the "then and now" thread (see below).

I will do some more research and try a few wheel combinations to try and arrive at what it would have been running after the front and rear arch modifications had been done.

The postings to this point have brought the story up to date, I plan to use the summer to try and establish a final detailed specification.

Hugh – with regard to the info on the RHD T/R’s I believe the original engine for “TMD 7F” (chassis 118 2 0828) to be 4081110. I am not too sure where I got that number from however so please don’t take it as definitive. The owner (“RennTyp”) posted on the thread earlier so hopefully he can confirm.

I would just like to take this opportunity to thank a few people in particular who have taken time to give me help and advice - Chris/Tom/Hugh/Jeff/Karim - I am very grateful (you are on the hook now so I will no doubt be coming back for more!) and I apologise if I have left anyone out

AS A QUICK PLUG FOR THE EARLY S REGISTRY AND THE RELATIVELY INSIGNIFICANT MEMBERSHIP FEE, WHERE WOULD YOU GET ADVICE/KNOWLEDGE/PHOTOS/DOCUMENTS ETC. FROM THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE GLOBE FROM PEOPLE WITH NO OTHER AGENDA THAN TO HELP! THE BEST EARLY 911 INVESTMENT I EVER MADE.

Tim