The real 73 RSR TF Winner - Porsche Factory Scam??

Hi John

From what is written in this thread by various contributers, and what is missing in race records for the balance of 1973, I would have thought the "race car" destroyed was R8 (9113600974). It was at Monza, then went to the Targa but disappeared from sight after that.

Isn't the 1974 RSR turbo R8 also the 1973 RSR #974, effectively only reappearing on the track nearly a year after the 1973 targa?

The hard question is whether there was a "practice car" AND a "training car" both with the possibility of being called "mongrel", one of which was "destroyed", or only one "extra" car that was damaged and then put back together and run in the event.

The RS book I quoted in post #111 above suggests that the "Practice" car was damaged and then the race car and then the T car was made up with a 3 litre race engine. This T car was supposed to have full race chassis and suspension but was "old" (but lapped almost as fast as the race car).

This still leaves the possibility open that the T car and the practice car are one and the same, as it does not specify WHAT damage was done - it could have been engine?

I think on the balance of probabilities that the mongrel that ran as 107 and finished 3rd, with no apparent damage, was 002, the ex Strahle car as the notes record it being supplied by the Porsche test division (although it is possible I suppose that it was 001 the ex Zasada car which was supposedly being used in the press area)

In that case 002 would have survived at least to go back to the factory and maybe used as a T car for more events.

It would have been well past its use by date at that stage and it is not surprising that it disappeared after that - by all accounts it should not have been in competition at that stage and they had a number of new "R" cars coming on board.

There is every possibility that it was scrapped but who knows - maybe it is sitting out there in a barn waiting to be found :eek:

John:

I think the documentation from the race videos and pictures after confirm that 002 was raced as #107. Somewhere the records must exist telling the story of what happened to this car. It belonged to the factory, and having been considered a "mongrel", it could have been sold to a private collector as one explanation as to why it has never been seen.

This brings to mind a question: did the factory restamp the front plate behind the tank when they renumbered a car? One reason for lack of 002 further documtation could be from lack of good identification of the chassis. The car could have been raced by a privateer after being sold by the factory, but the records of what it was were lost along the way.

Gib

varunan123;

I think Hugh's comment on #107 finishing third was only a misprint, as he earlier pointed out that it finished 6th.

I will stick to the conclusion that #107 was the Strahle and Martini #3 press
car, and was 002 which was a 72S renumbered, and was the mongrel car. In the pictures of the Martini #3 press car, the external oil lines are clearly visible. I can't see in the video whether they are there or not, but I will bet they are. The hood had been changed to the U shaped Martini version, and it is easy to believe that the hoods and fuel tanks were changed to fit the needs of the event.

I think #9 was one of the Leo Za rally cars, which got renumbered as 020 and used with the 3.0 engine in tests in late 72, took 3rd at TF, and most likely is the Museum car. It was white as a rally car, but that doesn't mean the interior wasn't black like the museum car, which has a production type of interior with rear window opening bracket holes seen the photo at the museum. As a 72S rally car it would have had this kind of interior.

I am not sure we have much disagreement, except maybe on which car #107 was.

Gib

recently purchased a 1973 carrera rsr,and was playing on the internet,went to pcna,their classic site;they state that the museum car is serial#9113600020
my car at sebring not lemans

ps Patrick911 - i think you've done enough to justify hero status .. regardless of the lack of VIN, great effort !!

Here some more shots that help clear the air. #9 has the riveted on flares
and red top that would identify it as Larrousse's renumbered 72S and the Museum car 020.

If you look closely, you can see the small mud flap on the rear of #107s fender well, which looks like the one on the #3 Press car used in the wind tunnel tests, and the red (or tangerine) prototype car pictured in the RS book. Also, the Martini stripes do not go over the top of the car, which corresponds to the #3 press car.

I think this clears up most of the mystery for me. The Museum car is the renumbered Larrousse car, and I also think this points toward 107 being the factory "mongrel".

Gib Bosworth
R Gruppe #17
EarlyS #434

...just moments apart...(pic from page 2)

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8874/untitledcr7.png
Shot at 2007-08-04

Clearly the restoration of the Museum RSR wasn't too bothered with period details...they placed "Elf" stickers on the wings while the factory was sponsored by "Shell" in 1973. Although the Shell logo was even reproduced on the official Targa Florio poster published after the race....

Great pics and info.

Does anybody have any knowledge of what happened to 9113600002, renumbered 72S, factory prototype RSR, #107 at 73 Targa Florio?

Maybe Jim Calzia's new article with inputs from Norbert Singer will reveal the true story of what happened to this "factory mongrel".

Gib Bosworth

3 pair of Cibie lights is a bit over the top isn't it? Or was it like that originally?

I'm curious to know more about the R2 at Gunnar, as it could be the answer to the RSR TF confusion....