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love this thread , gives me more than i could have hoped for in info for my build!
The pictures of the hood give me a cunning idea for getting my fibreglass parts made , any chance of a photo of the underside as shown but complete with a ruler along side so i can scale off it?
Allan, Jim and OliveR:
Thanks for the kind words. It is nice to know that you guys are reading along and enjoying this story.
Allan, I think the history is always half the fun of finding old items which others have kept safe all these long years waiting for the right moment to relinquish ownership and end their period of safekeeping.
If I had a tub with the relevant history, I would be very particular about the parts used for its restoration. But that is just me. Many others feel differently about this and instead prefer to use modern components on their historically significant chassis.
This is very fortunate for those hot rodders like me as lots of original parts seem to linger in the basements and storage lockers of old time enthusiasts without apparent demand from owners of the original cars.
The Tart lacks the chassis number of a "real" car but it will be built to a very high spec almost entirely with factory parts. It is as if we made our selection from the comp spare parts list, had it all delivered from the Race Dept and then built the car exactly how we wanted it. This aspect of the project has surprised me; we found nearly everything we set out to find.
But besides the parts, we stumbled upon a great deal of oral history that came gratis along with the hardware. The oral history provides much of the written content presented along with the pictures in this thread.
Understandably, a great deal of knowledge of the ST era resides in Germany where enthusiasm for these cars remains at a high level. The details and stories behind the part numbers enumerated in the Competition Spare Parts lists are well understood there and more of it will be shared in this thread as the project moves along.
Because it was not a recognized model, the factory never published a Drivers Manual for the ST. There are no pictures or diagrams compiled in one convenient volume to determine "correctness."
Ironically, this provides one with great flexibility in the final specs and presentation of a factory style ST hot rod. The guidelines are set out in the Sports Purpose Manual and the various editions of the Competition Spare Parts List for Typ 911S but there is great latitude allowed in how one arranges the details.
So while this hot rod is what my old friend Ray Cuomo would refer to as a "Bitsa" (bits of this and bits of that), perhaps the sum of its stories is nevertheless worth telling.
Yes it is...Thank you.
John
What an awesome thread, probably one of my favorites! Thanks for the excellent read.
Tom your project is stunning! I can't wait to see it in person. I might have to make a special trip out east just to check it out!!!
JW
Just spoke with Jean-Claude Lagniez,i will soon have some vintage pics to share about this car;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
So that would explain why in a five lug Minilite one or more of the lug holes are hard up aginst one of the spokes whereas the others are on the flat part of the wheel centre. The wheel was never designed to take five lug holes.
Makes you very careful when tightening up the nut next to the spoke so not to damage the wheel.
Thanks!!
Regards
Mike
A friend sent me an old account written by Mario Ilotte, an Italian sportscar driver who very successfully campaigned an original ST built by the Race Department for circuit racing. His letter touches briefly on the subject of Minilite wheels and his reminiscences of the 1971 season. Senor Ilotte wrote "For 1971 Competition Porsches were running the 911 on 9"x15" wheels at the rear and 7" or 8" on the fronts. They hadn't had the time to have them built by their normal supplier Fuchs and had therefore opted for Minilites on the rear and the standard 7" at the front..."
The standard 7" in those days was of course what we refer to today as the 7R part number 901.361.012.05. I double checked the part number of the 7R just now in the april 70 Spare Parts List Type 911S competition type and it is as I recalled.
However, on the next line down, the april 70 Spare Parts List shows 911.361.017.00 for Felge-Rim-Jante-Gavio 9"x15". That is a very interesting part number. What makes it so interesting is that it is not the part number for the Fuchs 9"x15" wheel, which as we saw in a prior post is listed in the nov 71 Spare Parts List as 911.361.020.03.
So, if 911.361.017.00 does not denote the Fuchs 9"x15" just exactly what does it denote?
This strange part number begs the question: did the Race Department assign an official factory part number in the april 70 Spare Parts List to the Minilite 9"x15"?
Well the evidence indicates a strong likelihood of that being the case. Consider the following:
1. period photos of the 1970-71 seasons show the Minilite 9"x15" in almost universal use on cars built by the Race Department.
2. An eyewitness to the events of the day, Senor Ilotte, gives us a personal account of Porsches using Minilite.
3. Finally, the april 70 Spare Parts List for type 911S competition type, an official publication of Porsche KG, inexplicably lists the "wrong" number for the Fuchs 9"x15"!
Conclusion: The Minilite 9"x15" was a "factory" part for the purposes of the 1970 and at least part of the 1971 season and very likely had the part number 911.361.017.00 assigned for purposes of ordering spares.
But, at some point prior to publication of the nov 71 Spare Parts List, the Fuchs 9x15 wheel, part nbr 911.361.020.03, became available in sufficient quantities to supplant the Minilite 9"x15" part nbr 911.361.017.00, which was then dropped from the list and conveniently forgotten by the Race Department since pur sang parts had sufficiently filled the spares pipeline, forever closing the chapter on their experiment with hot rod parts.
The scan of the blue tinted page shown below in this post is excerpted from the April 70 competition spares list while the white page is excerpted from the November 1971 list. Note the mysterious change in part numbers for the 9x15 inch rim!
As Dr. Brett Johnson instructs in the Introduction to Porsche 911 A Restorers Guide to Authenticity: "Within the dark maroon binders of the parts lists, all the of the secrets are revealed."
Secret revealed?
“Over pressure valve” is the literal translation of uberdruckventil. However, we would more readily recognize the appropriate terminology as “pressure relief valve.”
We are used to seeing this part fitted to RSR and 914-6 GT and many on this board are familiar with the elaborate warm-up procedures observed for race engines . A pressure relief valve was also used on some 911 ST especially those prepared by the Race Department to Special GT Group 4 specs as well as the highly specialized ST Safari.
This valve, like most others, is designed to function in two positions: open and closed.
The pressure relief valve is comprised of a piston held in the closed position by coil spring pressure, all contained in a cast housing with threaded ends on the inlet and outlet spigots cast integrally with the body of the housing.
The purpose of the pressure relief valve is to protect the remote oil coolers from sudden high pressure conditions, such as would be generated upon start-up with cold 40 weight oil, the viscosity specified by the Race Department for competition spec engines. This was especially critical in cool weather conditions such as those encountered at the Nurburgring and at pre-dawn in the African desert.
The valve was plumbed into the oiling system between the engine case and the oil tank filler neck and is designed to open at 5.0 atmospheres of pressure (approx. 80 lbs per sq inch). A high oil pressure condition (5 atm and over) moves the valve's piston to the open position thus de-pressurizing the system by diverting oil from the case directly to the dry sump tank - away from the oil coolers. Under normal operating pressures, the valve remains closed, allowing oil to flow from the case to the oil coolers.
Next, there are two images showing ST installations, one a MY 70 2,3L ST prepped for circuit racing and the other a MY 71 ST Safari. The "red top" variation shown on the MY70 2,3L ST is very rare and found only on early cars. The version shown on the Safari is the same as the first example but is missing its red can covering.
As a sidenote, the Safari oil filler neck is sporting a big Blau oil cap, rarely seen on ST but a universal fitment for RSR.
Next, there is an image of the second and most common version of the uberdruckventil, that was sourced from Germany for the hot rod. The second version of the valve came into use for some 2,5L ST and universally on MY 73 Carrera M 491 2,8L. The next image shows the installation of the second version on a 2,8L RSR.
The Spare Parts List Carrera M491 1973 2,8 ltr. competition type lists the part as:
911.107.017.00 Uberdruckventil
Finally, there is an image of a serial number tag from another type of valve produced by the same manufacturer, but one designed for a non-Porsche application. However, it is nevertheless extremely interesting.
This pressure relief valve used by the Race Department was manufactured for Porsche by the Berlin-based firm Armaturen-Apparate-Fabrik Preschona (“Preschona”). Preschona was the leader in its industry and a member of the engineering elite of Germany’s middenstand, an enviable network of privately held mid-sized manufacturing businesses, a group that of course included Porsche KG in those days. Preschona’s area of expertise lay in the realm of high pressure fluid dynamics.
Preschona’s credentials in the area of pressurized fluid control were un-rivaled, its expertise having been established at the very dawn of modern rocketry. Providing the uberdruckventil to Porsche’s specifications was by no means the most challenging job Preschona had fulfilled, having previously manufactured such exotica as the fuel distribution and fuel pressure valves for Werner von Braun’s early rocket designs.
The final image shows a well worn serial number plate from a Preschona fuel pressure valve, an artifact recovered from the crash site of a V2 rocket.
Yes indeed, rocket science for hot rods.
Thanks for that explanation, that clears up one of life's little mysteries. The only explanation I had ever gotten was "some kind of vent" not near as complete as your description.
OliveR: did the opportunity arise to obtain vintage photographs from M. Lagniez?
Ed: I hope to uncover one or two more little mysteries as the project moves along.
Post #228 above makes reference to Sr. Mario Illotte's personal account of campaigning an ST.
His account is most compelling. The fullness of his experience, the pleasure of achieving success and competing at an astounding level of competition make it seem the stuff of legend: the last great days of the gentleman privateer in motorsport.
The ST quite evidently overwhelmed Illotte's senses, its visual impact exceeded only by its tenacity on course and visceral wail at full chat.
Turn off the golf, put down the fishing magazine and get a nice cold drink. This makes for a good read:
Chassis Number: 9110301108
The story of 'CIQUITA',
"Ciquita is not a girl ...she is a racing Porsche who I fell in love with in 1970. I was at the Nurburgring to race in the 1000 KM in a Porsche 910, I arrived at the circuit from Frankfurt airport where I rented a BMW 2000 to use in practice. Starting very cautiously and putting in the laps I couldn't believe what was unfolding before me, bends, curves, hills long straights making up the full 21 kilometres I began to wonder whether it was possible to race this track in a sportscar.
Driving at the Nurburgring is no joke and not for the fainthearted Éany slight error has danger written all over it. Whilst driving relatively steadily trying hard to memorize the track I was passed by a Yellow Shell Porsche GT with the name 'Ciquita' written on the boot lid, fantastically shod with huge rubber boots, which were very unusual for the period, riding extremely low to the ground with amazing stability and with titanium exhausts producing a magnificent metallic noise!!
Back in the pits I handed over the BMW to my team-mate, grabbed a drink and went straight in search of 'Ciquita'. She was in the hands of two other men, those of Taionen and Frolich. 'Ciquita' was delivered by the race team for Group 4 competition. For 1971 competition Porsches were running the 911 on 9"x 15" wheels at the rear and 7" or 8" on the fronts. They hadn't had the time to have them built by their normal supplier Fuchs and had therefore opted for Minilites on the rear and the standard 7" at the front - this combined with the new spoiler package gave the car an absolutely exotic appearance.
Other new developments compared to the GT4 of the previous year were the bonnet, doors, bumpers and spoilers in glass fibre and the windows in Plexiglass. Up front was mounted an enormous 100 litre fuel tank and the engine capacity was increased to 2380cc with a power output of 240cw and a weight of 900kgÉall of which made this fantastic racer a real supercar.
I had raced in the late 60's with the GT Porsche 2 litre but 'Ciquita' was 10 times sexier and it was love at first sight !
That same evening after the practice session I went over to 'Ciquita's' garage to speak to Frolich who allowed me to get inside 'Ciquita' and he informed me that after this race that she would be for sale. Her price was 9000 000 lire or £3000 sterling which in those days was double the price of a road going 911S! The car's owner at the time was the German millionaire Mr Bauaus.
During the race I finally found my rhythm and the track had become more familiar, I was going welI when I reached a descent and the gearbox broke and decided to stay in third gear. I made it back to the pits where I was consoled by seeing 'Ciquita' arrive in the top ten!
I bought 'Ciquita'!!!!
She went like fury, the road-holding compared to my previous year's car was extraordinary, flat through the bends with no lifting of the front wheels... superb braking due to the oversize wheels I was already dreaming about my first race. Immediately I got the car home my mother instantly recognised the beauty and potential of my new love - resplendent in the early morning light!. My mother had always had an immense passion for fine racing cars having driven a Bugatti with my father, she had accompanied him to his race meeting at Brooklands in the 30's. She had also co-piloted her brother-in-law in the first Mille Miglia in a Diatto and again in the Mille Miglia in '56 in a Maserati A6GCS - good qualifications indeed for giving the thumbs-up to my new race toy!!!!
That same year 'Ciquita' and I participated in many European events including Dobrach in Austria where we arrived 2nd and then Trento Bondone where we burst rubber. At Sestriere we came up against Haldi and Kramer where we didn't win but put in some very respectable times. At Olon Villard we arrived 2nd again .
On the 12th September during the Italian G.P at Monza there was the usual GT race meeting, one of the most important events of the season - remember the mythical battles between the Ferrari GTO, SWB, Jaguar, Ford GT 40, and Cobra. Monza was still without it's chicanes of today and you would take the high speed curves flat-out including Ascari. I had a relationship with 240kph and managed to qualify 2nd, missing pole by very little indeed.
We won !!!! We broke the lap record and the following year the track was altered so the GT lap record still stands with 'Ciquita' on the old Monza track. In October we arrived 2nd in the GT Class in the 1,000 km of Austria at the Osterichering which was a big achievement as it was the last race of the season and the big teams of Ferrari, Alfa & Porsche were out in full strength. During the winter months we bought 8" minilites for the front and discovered some newly developed Pirelli tyres.
We entered the Targa Florio but unfortunately with little success and was then contacted by Jean Sage who had a Porsche race team who asked if we would like to race at the 24 hours of Le Mans together with another driver Hanriea, a driver with lots of experience and a bit of money. Friday's practice session went very well and we were achieving respectable mid-field times. Driving in the middle of the night at LeMans is an undescribeable emotionÉa Ferrari 412P at almost 400kph with the exhausts spitting fire, the lights and the thunderous noise in the nights creates a hard hitting adrenaline rush.I learn't the circuit well!
During the actual race we had an unfortunate engine failure and the event was not a happy one as the problems were irreparable in the time and we had to retire.
We employed a team from Losanna to rebuild the engine to enable us to compete in the Coppa Inter Europa. The desicion was taken to increase capacity to 2,500cc with fuel injection as opposed to caburators. We first entered, competed and won a couple of hillclimbs and then begun our final preparations for Monza. During Friday's practice things went superbly and we were second again. On Saturday, back on track with a new set-up, studied overnight we put in some fantastic times and the first 3 laps we had the fastest time with only one other driver managing eventually to improve on my time. After a pause I was back on track ready to really let loose when the engine let loose instead, spilling oil and lots else onto the track. The team fixed me up with a new engine and we managed to win a couple more hillclimbs but I was looking forward to the end of the season.
During the winter I sold the troublesome engine and decided to transform poor 'Ciquita' into an RS 2.7 litre Group 3 to compete in the "Giro d'Italia". I then began a new adventure racing a prototype Abarth ...