The real 73 RSR TF Winner - Porsche Factory Scam??

I think Hugh's summary may capture what did happen at the TF, or pretty close. One additional clue to observe from the pictures is the little rectangular decal in the lower left corner of the rear windscreen. The one on #8 seems shorter and positioned just above the aluminum trim in the rubber, while the one on #9 seems to lap over the aluminum trim slightly and is longer. There is also a small rectangular decal in the right side vent window on some cars, and not on others.

Interestingly, in the Sonauto big tire picture, you can faintly see what looks like that same rectangular decal as on #9, even though the rear flares are gone, mirror, rear deck, etc had been changed. This may be the only identifiable item from the #9 TF RSR that confirms they are the same car. Pretty weak visual evidence though.

Gib

this is a pic of car 62. I believe that it is at the Le Mans test and the numbers match.

That should make it the lead drivers Gijs van Lennep and Herbert Müller. While at least one source I have seen suggests that they were in 020 R2, I find that difficult to believe.

If R2 and the much newer R6 (588) were the 2 cars at the Le Mans test, I cant see the main drivers in anything else but the newest car.

This #62 car looks brand new. It has the updated livery, black trim, smooth "new look" rear guards, wipers parking on the right and no sign of an oil door (although it is almost impossible to see that area well enough)

My guess would be that it is #588 IF that was at the le mans test as most records show.

I don't think I have anything of #61 but will continue to look.

I am giving the whole issue of #9 a miss for a while until I can unravel my thoughts which have been scrambled by all of this ;)

It would be good if we could get some hi-res pics from the car paddock at the Targa because I genuinely can't see enough detail to make a judgment on the points raised by varunan123

Fwiw .........

what source did you use for that datat on cars v race numbers?
I was looking at http://wspr-racing.com/wspr/results/...champ1973.html
and it gives the same numbers as you

however i don't know if i believe it - as the concept of the drivers contracted for the whole season driving an "old' car with th drivers picked up for the weekend in the newest one doesn't make sense to me

I did have another source but I cant find it at present

Also, both cars have the right park wipers. While having similar rear flares the 40 car doesn't appear to have the stuart wing.

here are another couple of pictures of 40 and 41 at spa 1000km in 1973......and interestingly an apparently early pic from a magazine of the factory museum car painted up ALMOST as it is now on a road / magazine test at some stage. it is not exact as it does not have the ELF decal etc but most of the rest appears to be as it is now.

this is supposed to be the car #9 , 020 according to the museum

The 8 and 40 cars show the same black mirror while the 41 has a silver mirror.

that is an interesting point about the lip on the spoiler.

The team was obviously experimenting with all sorts of things race by race (and possibly between cars within a race).

These are pictures of the two team cars at Monza on 25 April 1973, 3 weeks after the Le Mans practice on 1 April and 3 weeks before the Targa on 13 May. However Spa (6 May) was between Monza and the Targa (with Nurburgring following two weeks after he Targa on 27 May).

Car 81 is supposed to be R6 (588) with van Lennep and Muller.
Car 82 is supposed to be R8 (974) with Follmer and Schurti.

Both have the lips on the spoilers at this stage.

What bothers me however is:

I am sure i have read more than one place that due to the tight race schedule the TWO Monza cars went directly to the Targa - ie not to Spa in between.

That would mean that R6 (which all acknowledge was the winner at the Targa) went there along with R8 which may be deuced was the original car 107.

However R6 is also supposed to be at Spa as car 40 in between:confused:

I cant see this to be correct so I think that car 40 at Spa is NOT R6.

Furthermore, on mirrors, R6 at the Targa did not have any external mirror. From the picture here it does not look like car 81 has any either. The #62 Le Mans test car certainly has "flag" mirrors like the 107 and 9 cars at the Targa.(suggesting that it is not R6 but probably 020 R2)

I think it may be worth looking at each of the team cars during this period to see if a pattern emerges with the mirrors. There are at least 5 variations - no mirror; chrome flag mirror (eg 107 and 9 at targa) ; chrome "racing mirror" ; black "racing" mirror; and black flag mirror (eg the LEO ZA rally cars)

The final pictures are the first race of the season - 6 hour Vallelunga 25 March 1973, with car number 9 being R6 (588) Follmer/Kauhsen, and car 8 being R5 (576) with van Lennep and Muller.

Both cars seem to have the extended lip on the spoiler so that, I think, may be something that came on and off depending on front end grip wanted.

Also Neither car seems to have an external mirror which means that all of the pictures that I believe are really of 588 do not have a mirror.

While I have been thinking about this, I re-read the claim from the Museum about the history of its cars

"This is the actual history of the museum-car:

1973 Le Mans, 14th, Gregg/Chasseuil
1973 pre-training Le Mans, 4-hour race:4th, Schurti/Koinigg
1973 Targa Florio, 3th, Kinunnen/Haldi - source factory museum"

If we assume for the minute that it is car 020 there in the museum, the claim that it was the Schurti/Koinigg car at the Le Mans 4 hour (car #61) does not seem credible. The Picture above that does not look like 588 is car 62 and we can see Van Lennep driving it as he had a very distinctive helmet.

IT seems to be the 020 car which means that the Schurti/Koinigg car would have been R6 (588) the eventual Targa winner now with Peter Kitchak, not the "pretend" targa winner.

I wonder if the claim about the Gregg Sonauto car at Le mans (car #48) is equally questionable, especially given the picture of it soon after Le Mans with the very wide rear wheels on the test track

Quote:

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Originally Posted by varunan123

.I think most would agree the two cars below look the least like the martini cars in all the other races, not only visually but in features(paint scheme,flares,oil opening,etc)

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I was almost going to post that, or words similar, last night.

To me all the pictorial evidence suggests that BOTH 107 and 9 look like "ring - ins" that were not a part of the normal team and neither look like pictures of cars that are said to be R2 020 earlier in the year, although the "flag" mirror might be one point in common and all that signifies is that the chassis are more likely to be old rather than new and less likely to have been circuit racing recenntly.