Another hot rod

What a great story Tom!

So much good information in this thread, thank you.

Sent you a PM

fantastic story Tom

and it enabled me to put a chassis number to another ST as well :)

here are some photos representing parts of the story

in order
Frolich in 1970 at the Nurburgring
Illotte at the 1971 targa car #48
Illotte at le mans 1971
and again

Hi Cam,

I replied to your email.

Hugh:

Great work on tracking the Banana Boat through race results and photos.

As these old race cars moved from team to team, the changes in livery and equipment added/deleted depending upon race venue make the cars' individual histories difficult to track accurately.

However, it looks like you have the history of the Banana Boat nailed most elegantly.

Cross referencing Illotte's reminiscences with the photographic records of the great race meetings of the day provides irrefutable evidence of the car's identity.

I wonder if someone can access the Kardex to see exactly how it was equipped when first delivered?

Well done!

Thanks Tom

I now have photographic files on almost all Porsches at both Le Mans and the targa up to the end of 1973 (from the early 50's) (and quite a few rally cars by chassis number and registration as well :) )

That helps a bit, but I had never put this car at these 3 races together, or the chassis number, and never would have without that great story you posted.

Even if I cross reference the drivers or entrants over different events there is no certainty that the same car was used unless there are significant identifying features - which does not occur often.

I should probably add it to the ultimate ST thread now as well as a reference piece

Hi Raj:

Thanks for your post. Lots of good info.

Just to clarify for readers of this thread I have the following comments:

A. Porsche 911S

1. 9x15 wheels for the rear axle were most definitely FIA legal for 911S in Group 4, having been properly homologated with the FIA by Porsche.

2. I believe that Harvey is referring to lack of availability of the Fuchs wheel size 9x15 for the 911S

B. Porsche/VW 914-6 GT

1. During this period, Ralph Meaney raced the 914-6 GT (there were two similar looking examples at his shop in Sherborn, Massachusetts when I visited there after the Parade in Boston summer '70).

His factory built GTs had Minilites on the rear, perhaps 8s or the mysterious 8 1/2s that Harvery mentions, and 7R on the front.

Note that the 914-6 GT was subject to a completely separate and distinct FIA homologation than the 911S and was completely different in most respects.

In Ralph's case he was embroiled in a heated controversy with the SCCA which effectivley banned the GT version of the 914-6 from SCCA racing. This controversy resulted in the re-classification of the GT model from B Production to B Sports Racing where it was impossibly out-classed by extremely fast, purpose built, "proper" 2,0L race cars such as Chevron, Lola et al.

This happened after Ralph most convincingly thrashed and embarrassed all the Corvette guys in B Production at the Bridgehampton National that summer. He just walked away from them, and afterwards they protested the legality of the 914-6 GT as the basis for SCCA production car racing.


However the 914-6 GT was properly FIA homologated and remained completely legal in GT for FIA sanctioned events where the Meaney team had some great successes.


2. Harry Byztek also campaigned a 914-6 GT.

3. Your comments in respect of the magnesium Americans on the Byztek car and Harvey's comment about the nos Minilites that came in a factory conversion kit for 914-6 GT are very interesting but not to be confused by the readers of this thread with what was homolgated for Special GT Group 4 for type 911S competition type.

Ralph Meaney's two 914-6 GT factory built cars were sitting in his garage when I stopped by there in the summer of 1970 for a repair on my T1 Speedster after the rear wheel bearing turned noisy at the Boston Parade that year. The shop repaired them on the spot with parts off the shelf: no fuss, no appointment and no wait. Those were the days!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flunder

The ST quite evidently overwhelmed Illotte's senses, its visual impact exceeded only by its tenacity on course and visceral wail at full chat. Turn off the golf, put down the fishing magazine and get a nice cold drink. This makes for a good read

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Just got off a 13 hour flight from Singapore and read this over a large coffee - wonderful stuff :)

Martin

Ralphs still wrenching, in washington state

Quote:

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Originally Posted by varunan123

Tom

...I was just wondering out loud whether it was a issue of lack of supply or lack of demand...I am finding it hard to believe Fuchs didn't have the ability to make 9 inch wheels for over a year but i guess anything is possible.

Raj

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Raj:

Thanks for your interesting post.

The apparent scarcity of Fuchs 9x15s might well have been due to a lack of production capacity at Fuchs, given that they were making so many wheels for the road cars. In addition, tooling up for a small run of 9x15 required an EOQ (economic order quantity for the guys who did not take the introductory Production course) that perhaps the factory did not have in hand until late in the game.

I am convinced that the factory supplied M471 spec Group 4 911S race cars with Minilites direct from the factory.

The same may have been true for the 914-6 GT. Here is an image of Ralph Meaney showing how to get it done in GT racing. Incredibly, this pic was used by Porsche KG in the official factory race prep manual Information Regarding PORSCHE Vehicles Used for Sports Purposes 2. Edition from Model 1970 ( publication 4890.20-200-03-72).

Ralph's car had been the factory prototype for the 914-6 GT and was built by the Race Department. As we can see, it has the hot rod look: 7Rs and Minilites wider than a pony's back.

If the Race Dept prototype did not warrant access to wide Fuchs, I would bet that none of the customer cars did either. The 9x15 Fuchs for some reason just did not get into production: we can speculate whether it was lack of a pattern, lack of appropriate press to forge the wheels or just a capacity issue given the priority of road car requirements.

There is a footnote buried on page 35 of this edition of Sports Purposes that gives us a very interesting and perhaps conclusive clue. The footnote reads as follows:

"NOTE:

From production May 1971 no distance discs for 7" and 9" rims are necessary."

Based on the date noted in the official factory race prep literature for these cars, I believe that May 1971 is when the factory stopped using the old 7R on the front (the 7R required a 21mm spacer or "distance disc" to get the allowable front track dimension that had been homologated) and Minilite on the rear and switched instead to the new version 7x15 Fuchs and the 9x15 Fuchs. Having been designed with the proper offsets, the new Fuchs 7x15 and 9x15 obviated the need for "distance discs."

Harvey tells us from his experience of re-finishing thousands of Fuchs at Weidman Wheels that the earliest dates on Fuchs new pattern 7x15, 8x15 and 9x15 are all 1-71.

To me at least, that date supports the May 1971 switch-over date noted by the factory in Sports Purposes.

Perhaps now we can put another of the longhood mysteries to rest.

The hot rod has a birth date of February 1971. It will be shod with proper 9x15 Minilites!

JKH: thanks for the post of Ralph Meaney and his team cars! That sure looks like his shop in Massachusetts.

Martin: glad you enjoyed the story after the long trip from Sing

Taken at Rennsport III.......

Chuck: thanks for posting the beautiful pics of Ralph Meaney's factory prototype. That SixGT was never that pretty when Ralph won class honors for GT at Daytona, but he sure knew how to make it run!

Apologies to readers for having been off on so many tangents to examine ST parts and the Minilite discussion.

Now let's take a look at how the project is progressing.

The build specifications for a 911S prepared for Group 4 included mounting points for the harness on the rear parcel shelf.

These are part of the equipment described as "Attachments for sports security belts" in the 1970 Sports Purposes manual.

For documentation of the mounting points for the rear attachments board members and fellow enthusiasts were kind enough to provide the following images.


The first image shows the mounting point on a 2,5L factory built car.

The second image is courtesy of McKlein Photo and shows the mounting point on a MY71 Safari ST.

The final image shows one of the most famous 2,3L cars, this one "built in Koln."