The real 73 RSR TF Winner - Porsche Factory Scam??

Curt

What A Great Find!!!!!

now to try to make sense of it :eek: :confused:

Is it really another "107" in the pits? i can't read the numbers.

It is a pity the people are standing in front.

Is this a picture from the very beginning of practice??

It looks like the T-car (rs 002 ) that is the 107 next to "8" and maybe the car in between it and what looks like "9" (although I cant read that properly either) is "108" the R8 (RS 0974) that was wrecked in practice.

Or were there really 2 cars stickered up as "107" at the same time and that is why we saw the 2 versions of "107" in those videos??

Another thing, for someone with better eyes or monitor than me, is is that "Martini Porsche " at the front of the bonnet on the car at the far left (presumably car 9). ??

If so does that car have the "U" shaped livery like car 8? That livery certainly was not on car 9 at race time but the white blur on that car looks a lot like the front of car 8:confused:

I think this is a picture before R8 crashed, which would be the 3rd from right car with the slanted number 107, even though we can't really see the number. I think this slanted 107 numbered hood is the only car that had a slanted number of the cars that were at the TF. The far left car is #9, with a plain hood but with a white looking rectangular shape on the lower hood, as seen in a better picture at the turn.

The first 2 cars from the right are the winning #8, and the 6th place #107, with its original hood, before the switch with the slanted 107 hood. I don't think there is anything new here, just a very interesting shot of events during practice.

Gib

I guess I'll throw in these Rennsport photos .... great car! :)

BTW: I liked the door opener. Interesting alternative to the usual leather strap.

Guys - I may have found a source for previously unseen photos. Waiting for reply.

Stand by :)

varunan123

Following the paperwork like this is an interesting approach and raises a number of points, some which have been considered earlier in the thread (but not resolved).

I would agree that it is likely that a new ONS pass was created every time there was a substantial change to the specs of a car so that it accurately represented the car at the time for eligibility and race scrutiny reasons.

That is why the 906 one would have been reissued as a spyder.

In the case of R2 one pertinent factor would have been the fact that the RSR was not homologated as a group 4 car (special GT - 500 cars ) until late Feb / early March 1973.

Therefore this particular Wagenpass as a special GT could not have been issues until then even though R2 was made / remade? in October 1972 in time for the TdC.

For information a copy of the homologation papers for Group 3 series GT (1000 cars) from April 9 is attached. The Group 4 Special GT one would have been a separate document issued a month or so earlier.

That raises the question (that has been asked earlier in the thread) that what Wagenpass did the car run under at the Tour de Corse? The caption in the book from which this photo was taken alludes to to the fact that it had been converted from the rallye version (and presumably new papers issued as a result).

Was it running with a RS "sportwagen" (25 cars completed) Wagenpass, as the 1973 Daytona cars were forced to, due to the fact that the special GT homologation had not come thru at that stage?

Or was it running with an ST Wagenpass before March because it had an ST as its earlier iteration?

Or was it running as an evolution of the 2.4S from previous years, (ie an ST) as the ability to do that was in the design parameters when the RS project was created.

Or, finally, did the Tour de Corse allow un-homologated cars to run in prototype class as the 911R did in the Tour de France?

Also assuming that 020 is 002 and before that was 911 230 0841, where is the Wagenpass it had originally and what happened to that? Did the authorities that originally issued them destroy the original papers when a car changed enough to have them reissued?

In some other jurisdictions, a car's "logbook" records the changes in spec and provides a more continuous history.

A second point that has been raised before by Gib is if this is correct how could car 002 and car 020 both be at the Targa? I won’t pursue that one here.

One interesting angle to following the paperwork, and assuming a record was kept of change in specifications, cancellation and reissue of ONS papers just like registration documents, etc WHERE ARE THE OFFICIAL COPIES or the master records??

Surely the document issued with the car must have a counterpart somewhere in some official organization, and that place must keep all the old papers from the different iterations of a particular car.

Does such a source exist? If so is it available to access or protected by more privacy laws than the Kardex?

Hi

I used to have more information / scans of papers, and some hard copies, but I have not been able to find them recently :(

I think the reference to October 1972 on the papers is when the series production began and 9 April 1973 is when the 1000 was reached, allowing this document to be issued. Note it is interesting that the RS book says that April 9 is also the date that production moved to series production undercoating, windscreens, etc as the homologation number had been achieved.

There is no doubt that the group 4 homologation was issued before this in late Feb (can't find the date at present) and I believe it was a similar paper but the date filled in one line up against the 500 produced.

It is interesting however that the photo used on the papers I posted was an original one of RS #15 (?) produced back in July 1972 with the prototype lettering that was used on the original sales brochure.

So far as 001 v 011 goes, the RS book and other sources state that this was to allow existing race cars to be "Updated / upgraded" to latest RS specs and use the numbers left vacant.

However, apart from 001 and 002, I have not heard of this happening. Also that, and the fact that the "R" cars did not seem to go thru the weigh bridge / conversion process, means that the 1000th car built for homologation purposes had a number like 1035 or something that high.

I would have thought that all cars that were being raced would have some sort of official identity papers. Granted Zasada's may have had Polish papers but the Strahle cars would be running ONS papers as would the factory cars, including those that were road registered on plates like S - AK or LEO ZA.

I hope someone on the board with more information on this can add to this aspect.

If the wagenpass document for 020 is accurate, then the RS Book and factory records are incorrect (maybe they were based on the same error in the records from the factory) because the car pictured on this wagenpass is well documented as #107 at the TF. And don't the TF records indicate that 020 finished 3rd and not 6th? This would mean that the museum car is #107. Then the question is, was #9 RSR 002, since Singer's records or factory records show both 002 and 020 being at the TF...or maybe these should be questioned too. Then, what happened to #9 if it didn't go to the museum, and where are its wagenpass records?

I think the evidence weighs heavily that the wagenpass document pictures and vin are not compatible, but I also think that with 3rd party verification from an unbiased inspector it should be accurate.

Another factor is that the Strahle prototype (which became the #3 press car and later #107 at the TF) was created much earlier (June or July/72) and would likely have been renumbered 002 rather than 020. And this car was not at the TdC race because both cars there had narrower rear flares, and the unique look of the Strahle prototype/#3 press car/#107 is unchanged throughout the period from July 72 to the TF in May 73.

We need to find more complete evidence of what happened to either #9 or #107 after the TF, depending on which one is now in the museum.

Gib

That scenario would mean that at the TF #9 was 002...so why would the factory renumber from 002 to 020, and then give 002 to another car? Maybe the Strahle car stayed 230 0841 until it was renumbered 020 in Nov. 72, and 002 was originally assigned (or renumbered) to the car that was #9.

That 020 wagenpass document really undermines up a lot of other documentation if it is valid.

Gib

[QUOTE][so why would the factory renumber from 002 to 020/QUOTE]

because they were cheating

because they needed another car

because they could make money off the deal