The real 73 RSR TF Winner - Porsche Factory Scam??

Going back to this photo of the pits in 1973 again this is the caption from Curt's original source for the photo:

"1973 from left: n°9 Kinnunen_Haldi; n°107T and 107 Pucci-Stekkonig; n°8 Muller-VanLennep "

Given all the other material produced by this person (in Europe) and his obvious knowledge of the event and unbelievable amount of photos with accurate captions, I would say his descriptions of which car is which in this photo is likely to be accurate.

However I wonder if the "n°107T" and "107 Pucci-Stekkonig" are transposed and the real T-Car (which became the race car) is the one sitting next to car #8?

I am not sure what else to make of this.............

The wagenpass photo for the Strahle/Press Car/107/ shows the front bumper with a spoiler extension, and it is not on the car at the TF, so the front bumper has been changed...maybe more than once. I think the pix in the RS book shows the red Strahle car with 2 different looking front bumpers.

The rear bumper on #9 really shows the rally set up bumper that doesn't match the tacked on flares, which were added to Larrousse's ST from the TdC to "transform the rally car to a track car" per the RS book.

Gib

I have information that the 4th Martini car was Nr. 108 and in the GT class but was a DNS. This is probably the car in the pit photo that is blocked.

A few more here, but nothing remarkable. Still waiting on some others ....

Varunan123:

In your scenario of 002 and 020 being one and the same, car 107, does this cause a conflict in the records? The factory and TF records both indicate that Haldi/Kinnunen finished 3rd in #9 (factory says 020), while Steckkonig/Pucci finished 6th in 107. So are the factory records wrong on which car, 9 or 107 is at the museum?

Gib

In all of these pages, I don't think the most common photo of all has yet been posted :confused: Here it is, post-race factory foto, I believe.

Curt

what about this one?
...........from the RS`book

but it is "only' of #8 so was not of use in trying to sort out the debate on #9 and #107

I haven't read the entire thread here, but it's well known and documented that the LeMans painted red 917 in the factory museum is indeed a fake. The real LeMans winner was owned by Vasek and then sold to Japan, and then recently made it's way back to the states a few years ago. Serial numbers at one time were swapped with the Martini livery Sebring winner, but that nonsense has since all been corrected.

I'm not sure which car was at the Rennsport Reunion, the real one or the fakey.

-Wayne

Quote:

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Originally Posted by varunan123

curt this pix of number 8 is mislabelled it is from vallelunga -if you look at the colored photo at vallelunga, you see a circular emblem on the right rear quarter-also the martini scheme with the martini racing sign on the hood is similar to vallelunga and not the targa where it is martini porsche,also the lip on the front bumper-my mistake

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I tend to agree with varunan123 on this one :eek:

apart from the points he raised, the pics of car 8 at targa practice when it had the standard ducktail, shows all white martini racing on the roof rather than the white and blue of this pic. That livery was run at vallelunga though.

Attached is a copy of part of the group 4 - special GT homologation papers.

The effective date, as seen on page 1 was March 1 1973, although the application date is shown as November 1972 and the date of the information and photos being checked at the manufacturer's premises was 27 October 1972.

I have attached some of the pages of pictures in the document that have particular relevance to this thread.

They include the pictures used for the fuel system - you can see the Strahle car was used for the through the bonnet filler

Also the ex Waldergard ST from the 1972 Monte Carlo Rally - S AK 1337, (or at least a car with the same registration plates and colour scheme), which was also used for the recce for the Tour De Corse rallye, was used for pictures of the front and rear flares and the front mounted oil cooler and probably for one of the pictures of the fuel tank set up.

So it looks like in late October 1972 the ex Waldegaard ST from the 1972 Monte and Swedish rally was being passed off for homologation purposes as an RS / RSR (group 4 RS) along with the Strahle car.

We know the original number of the Strahle car 911 230 0841, and believe it was then renumbered as RS 002 and used as the press car and then probably car 107 at the targa.
We know that the Zasada car 911 230 0769 became RS 001;

But I don't think I have proof of the chassis number of the Waldegaard 1972 Monte car .............or what happened to it. The Monte Carlo sister car S AK 1336 is alive and well in Europe at present.

Singer's book 24:12 in a caption of a photo of it on page 53 suggests that THIS CAR (S AK 1337)was not only used as a Recce car for the 1972 TDC but after the Rallye "this car was taken straight to the Paul Ricard track to be transformed for circuit racing"

Maybe I am jumping to the wrong conclusion here BUT it could be inferred that:

THIS car, a 1972 ST that did the Monte as car #15 for Waldegaard (and the Swedish rally);
Did the practice / recce for the 1972 TDC;
Then was USED as one of the cars in the 1972 TDC;
Then went to the Paul Ricard testing - suggesting it is another candidate for RS 020 or R2 in the TDC, and later could be in the Targa along with 002:

However against this is, while:
It was used in the homologation photos for the group 4 RS on 27 October - days before the TDC - and looks like an RS ...

Why would they change the registration? Why not leave it as S AK 1337? - unless there was a decision to use the "LEO ZA" numbers for all the RS cars?

Also in the homologation papers it looks like it has 1972 silver horn grills and light trim but only a week later at the TDC the cars had black horn grills and light trims.

I know that this is easily changed and may have been for publicity reasons to achieve the 1973 "look" but then why change back for car 9 or 107 for the Targa? But they could not have changed the 1972 oil filler that it had along with its sister car.

Anyway I think this is one more possibility to put into the mix.......

a copy of the photo from Singer's book of TDC practice and a blow up of the picture from the homologation papers