POLO 4 cylinder 911 engine and 1967 912 almost done

Sun Valley in the 70's. I think it's time for another visit next Summer.
A busy Saturday on Petit Lake. 1 boat. In the 3 or 4 Summers Martha and I waterskied with this crew we only saw one other boat once on the lake Friday through Sunday. The waterskiers are Mark Mickelson and Gary Ashurst. I think Gary is still there. Not sure about Mark.
I built a duplex. 2 bedrooms up and 1 down across from the Warm Springs ski run. 58K. You can hardly buy a nice 912 for that now.

This event looks like a good excuse to go. Maybe next year?
Maybe 130 to 135?


https://sunvalleytourdeforce.com/event-information/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA0pHYLuOkQ&t=1s

Super NICE Chris !!!!!

I received my new vintage plates today. Kind of a tribute to Jeff Trask. I miss him. I figured it would be a big hit here. :D

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Kind of a tribute to Jeff Trask. I miss him.

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Me too Chris ... :(

Jeff leading a VERY spirited and VERY hot drive for the '2012 Dana Point 356 Show .... ;)

Cheers

I tried to keep up with him on a tight twisty road. I could reel him in on the straits. Once it got tight, he was gone. Notice his driving shoes, or the lack of shoes. Having grown up at the beach, I still drive barefoot a lot.

I put the pop back into the hood release. I have 3 springs and they’re all tired. So I doubled up. I need to get a new stronger spring.

Sent a load of cars to Rennsport Sunday. We pick them up at the local Porsche dealership today.

The car has arrived.

I've got a couple days of cleaning to do. It rained almost all the way back to Colorado via, SLC, Steamboat, to Denver.
A couple pictures at the end of page 1 and the start of page 2.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/swapmee...2023/Page1.htm

I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Chuck at Elephant. We discussed new suspension parts for a 69 POLO I'm building for a friend. I'll put in the order today or tomorrow. 15K. New wire harness from YnZ, custom gauges from John Bell, etc. It never seems to end. But the car will be awesome.

Drew and I spent close to an hour looking at each others cars at LUF7 in San Diego. He is a very nice young man and a wonderful fabricator. We're both very fortunate to own these cars. The best of everything Porsche.
It would have been great to grow up in a family like that with those fabrication skills. I have to outsource bodywork. Fortunately I have access to some good guys.

https://youtu.be/Rmwvs3EKzbQ

I've been reading up on 1973 to 1975 Dino 308 GT4's. Does anyone own one?

After watching the whole video, I didn’t hear whose motor it is. Polo? Rothsport? A masterpiece for sure.

The engine is a Chuck Beck build from many years ago. I think he built 2 POLO/Rothsport type engines. They where both 6's with the center part of the cases removed and welded together. I think Drew had the engine disassembled and freshened. My engine sounds different. Actually most sound different as most of us have used different exhaust systems.

I just went from 42# 440cc injectors to 36# 380cc injectors. I think I could have gone to 30# 315cc injectors. All are Bosch. The engine ran somewhat rich at idle and throttle tip in and I had to pull fuel. It still is but not to the extent as before. My goal is to run 0 adjustment rich or lean at idle after warm up, then adjust fuel curve after that. It's the anneal quest for perfection. 28mpg from Rennsport to Denver at 70 to 90 mph. I want 32 to 34 mpg at 14.5 afr under light load at 80 mph. At 80 mph on flat terrain with light wind I only need to depress the throttle maybe 3/8ths of a inch. Torque comes in handy when cruising cross country. At 80 mph and the afr adjusted correctly I won't pick up mileage when cruising. It's the better throttle tip in and low load metering that will save some fuel I hope. Time will tell. Under full load the 4 50mm throttle bodies can suck fuel crazy. But that's usually when I smile the most.

Drew’s Beck engine was built before there was a polo/rothsport 4 cylinder engine. Actually, it’s the only true Porsche engine of the bunch (modified of course). The other engines use a Porsche type design but are aftermarket cases. No porsche serial numbers.

Dean sold a 912 turbo engine he had in a Speedster to the Emory's. Now what? He had a Mag case with a rod sticking out that had no future as a running engine. He cut it up to make a buck to see if a 4 cylinder 911 case would fit. It did. Now what to use for a running engine?
The first running POLO was based on a 3.2 Carrera motor as explained in the top link article, down a ways next to THE DESPERADO 356. It was put in the Desperado and driven by Milt Minter. New cases today are freshly cast out of a Aluminum/Titanium mix, with 5 main bearings and a very short non flexy crank. The bottom end is VERY strong. I suspect 911 cranks flex very little if at all.
I was on the phone today with Dean for 30 to 45 minutes. He is as busy as ever.
My engine has 27,000 miles on it and running just fine. Dry as a bone. No oil leaks. As to who built the first one I can't say. Dean stayed with the project and I'm glad he did. Oh, and the Emory/ Rothsport engine is also very fine indeed.

https://www.doubledeclutch.com/?p=9881

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...O-4-Type-930-4

I was at Willow during one of Milt's DESPERADO tests .....

It had most unholy buzz-saw howls I ever heard from any Porsche of any cylinder configuration...AND, it was HAULING ASS !!! :eek:

Chuck, my understanding is POLO #1 when the crank was cut and welded up, it ended up being a flat plane crank. That could account for the wild sound.

This is a picture of a drive I did last week. We're supposed to get more mild Colorado weather in the high 40's to low 50's between Christmas and New Year. It's been a slow start to the ski season so far. For those of us around Denver it's a driving season that just keeps going.

https://chrsn-de.translate.goog/kont...n&_x_tr_pto=sc
I'm not on face book CHRSN is. Check it out and tell me what's on there.

More Rennsport 7.

Not sure it's going to happen but I've been emailing back and forth with Swindon about their 4 valve conversion for 964 and 993 engines. Most POLO's are based on those parts. The cam towers (they refer to them as cam boxes) would need to be developed. Cams would also need to be developed since the engine would go from 2 to 4 cams. So it would be a 4CAM4. A present day air cooled Carrera 4 cam. Spinning a 66 mm short stroke POLO to 9 or 10K would be like a 4 cylinder GT3. Or 8 to 8500 in my current 993 based 76.4 mm long stroke. I find it interesting the continued development of the air cooled engine. What's next?
https://swindonpowertrain.com/produc...nder-head-kit/

On another note the frog will soon be road worthy. Wheels are going from 16 to 15 with CN36's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Mb5DsSUv8

Waiting for a road test report.

^^^^ love the frog

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Originally Posted by Chris Pomares

Not sure it's going to happen but I've been emailing back and forth with Swindon about their 4 valve conversion for 964 and 993 engines. Most POLO's are based on those parts. The cam towers (they refer to them as cam boxes) would need to be developed. So it would be a 4CAM4. A present day air cooled 4 cam. Spinning a short stroke POLO to 9 or 10K would be like a 4 cylinder GT3. Or 8 to 8500 in my current 993 based long stroke.
https://swindonpowertrain.com/produc...nder-head-kit/

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Whoa! Crazy! Are those used on the Tuthill 911K or are those even more exotic (oil cooled?)

Same as 911K. I just white outed the 3rd head. They are totally feasible. It’s down to time and costs.

While the axles are off and the car is up on the lift I'll do an oil change today. 13 quarts of Champion 10-40. $186.00 for the oil. I use a reusable filter from K and P Engineering. It flows more yet filters even smaller particles. It also makes it a snap to inspect the filter as it comes out of the housing.
I ordered a pair of Sebro 20 mm wide vented rear rotors and brake pads from PMB. I'll get the rotors cryoed. Somehow I managed to slightly warp my rear passenger side rotor. Who knows, maybe it came that way? It still measures out to be 19.85 mm. The drivers side is perfect and measures 19.90. Just one of those mysteries. Oh, and I drained the transmission yesterday so I could replace a seeping drivers side rear axle seal. It's amazing how fast I can spend $1000+ on a few small projects.
Rebuild axles-$275 each
New rotors, pads, and shipping-$325.
75-90 dinosaur transmission fluid-$75
10-40 oil-$186
axle seal -$8
cryo of rotors-$120

https://kandpengineering.com/products/

https://www.championbrands.com/racing-motor-oils/

This is a negative of the John Bell 69 912 2.7 POLO car gauges.

I’ve seen his work over on the bird, seems like he does quality work. Waiting to see your finished product.

Rick,
Me to. I saw some gauges he did for a blue vintage rally car that will get shown at the next LUF. They are very nice. He is easy to work with and his prices are reasonable.

I saw this car today at the Colorado Springs Porsche Dealership. It's a stunning car.
https://www.excellence-mag.com/issue...he-hen-s-tooth

Was it there on display? Can’t imagine it was in for service.

It was on the showroom floor. I think it's owned by the owner of the dealership. It's one of the Porsche Classic dealerships. It appears he owns many Porsches. 918, 916, Singer, GT3's, GT2's, 59A Coupe, and many more I'm sure. I suspect this is one of the best dealerships as far as inventory new and vintage on display other than the biggest cities on the West and East Coasts.
Weather permitting on May 12th my car and 19 others are doing a PCA run up Pikes Peak starting at this dealership. I'm taking my car there Saturday to display it on one of their showroom floors. Should be fun. My wife will drive her Merc ML down there in case of poor weather. Hopefully we won't be following a snow plow in our SUV as May is our wettest month here in Colorado.

Places where the car will be displayed this driving season.
5/11 Colorado Springs Porsche Dealership. That afternoon. The next day we drive up Pikes Peak with 19 other Porsches.
5/19 VW's on the Green https://www.govwec.org/car-show/
6/9 Colorado Concourse and hopefully we'll show The Green Frog there also. ******See pictures https://www.abilityconnectioncolorad...rado-concours/
7/21 Probably here as it's just 3 miles away. https://automezzicolorado.com/# Their allowing 50 Porsches.
9/13-15 Vail Car Show. https://vailautomotiveclassic.com/
And a few of these. https://fuelfed.wordpress.com/
And Telluride???

What size tire and wheel in the above pic? Thx

185/70 on 7’s and 215/60 on 8’s. 15 inch wheels.
The Fuchs on the car are 16’s. 205 and 225.
The car will run on the 15’s.

I spent some seat time on the high mountain twisties. Mid week late morning the roads are empty.

My design. John Bell’s work.
The hour meter will be mounted in the engine compartment.

That is some real nice custom work. A voltage gauge is very worthwhile. If the fan belt breaks you know instantly. To complement the red light that might not be working.

VERY impressive !!!

Thursday at 1:30. I took a late lunch break on Peak to Peak Hwy. between Boulder and Golden. Actually Golden Gate Canyon to Coal Creek Canyon for those who know those roads. The traffic was a bit much. There were about 20 cars over about an hour. It's depressing.
Oh, the Frog should be heading home soon.

Martha and I did a drive up Pikes Peak. Lucky to meet Jeff Zwart up there. Posted in Drives and Tours.

Car shows. Last Sunday and this Saturday. This is a nice time of year for those of us who have to pack our cars away 5 to 6 months every year.

Third weekend in a row, car shows and drives. I think I needs a break. For whatever reason my car got placed in the center.There where some cars that where nicer than mine for sure. These pictures are before the event was open to the public. Another perfect day.

I was at Dave's Vintage Car Works getting a slot lined up to bring in the 69 POLO car I'm building for some light finish work to the body and paint. They are putting some finishing touches on a Rally Car they took to LUF. Patrick Long liked it so much he gave Dave a signed helmet. Here are a couple pictures. And a paint sample of Ultra Blau that will go on the POLO car.

Even custom fit storage for front control arms.

https://www.theairfactor.com/aluminu...aluminum-4g23b

I have no financial skin in this. I paid retail for a 18x24. And yes this of my car.

I went to a Fuelfed (.com) Cars and Coffee yesterday in Boulder, Co. While there an artist sitting in a chair in the shade drew a picture of the engine compartment. I think I'll get it framed.

Hi Chris,

Fellow Polo 912 owner here - just sent you a PM.

Talked to Swindon about the 4 valve heads. $37,000 each for a 6 kit run or $33,000 for a 12 kit run. Unless I win a lottery it’s unlikely to ever happen. I don’t suspect I’ll find 5 or 11 others to order a kit.
A 25% boost in power and an 8500 to 9000 redline sounds glorious. Probably could get these numbers with Extreme heads and some other upgrades. But the "it's never been done NA since the 50's and 60's Carreras" is my Achilles heel. Anyone have a spare 250K to cover the 6 kit order? Plus shipping, plus custom induction costs?

It looks like 300K page views will happen soon. It's beyond anything I could ever have imagined. I wonder who the interested folks are.

WOW! 300K views. Thanks for the interest.

There might be a black 912 POLO coming up for sale in the near future.

I checked out the pics of that blue rally build.
Amazing!

Info on this POLO car for sell will be available a little later. It's VERY nice.

I'm headed to a 3 day automotive car event today. I'm giving myself an extra day today to throw in an extra mountain pass or two before the event. Tomorrow Dave DiMaria (owner of Vintage Car Works) and I will do a mixed car lunch run to Steamboat Springs. My car is usually the oldest car on the drive. We hit 120 last time, Lots of newer Corvettes, an all makes of Euro. For them 120 is nothing. For me it feels like 150. The weather looks good. Mid to high 60's and mostly sunny. I hope all of you have a great weekend in your part of the world.

https://www.vailconcours.com/


https://www.vintagecarworks.com/ The green 69 Targa is one of my restorations.

On the cover of the Vail Daily today.

Here are a couple pictures under the 69 POLO aluminum hood and decklid in the rough. I'll post again when this stuff is mostly finished.

I just bought one of these. Four Cylinder Club of America badges. It'll get it cleaned up and mounted on the decklid grill.
There's a lot of interesting post WWII history about this club. https://fourcylinderclubhistory.com/
I've been trying to find one of these for four years.

Here are a few pictures of the custom aluminum decklid for the 69 POLO car. Which do you like better? The standard grill or maybe the mesh on the front bumper?

FCCOA badge’s new home.

The 69 Targa is getting very close to heading home. From the time I accepted the project, I've had to deal with a spinal tumor and it's effects on my daily life, 5.5 mm kidney stone, triple bypass open heart surgery, re-stint an artery, Covid 3 times, and a few other health issues. I guess, better late than never.

That's rear SWB S trim fitted to LWB bumpers to get rid of the red reflectors. It looks nice and clean. Also SWB side protectors for easy access to the torsion bars.

The 69 POLO coupe will be waaaay beyond this car when it's done. That's assuming I'll still be above ground when it's done.

The next car.
As the hood is a super thin gauge Aluminum, I decided to give it a lot of support. Gas shocks are out. One strut is also no go. I wanted support close to the middle of the hood on both sides when it's open. This should lessen twist on a windy day when filling the gas tank. On a really windy day, there will be a mini leather belt or Velcro to rap the middle of the hood strut bar support. This bar just snaps in and out on the hood and on the strut bar. There will be some other additions.
There is a lot more on the other thread about this car.

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Originally Posted by Chris Pomares

Info on this POLO car for sell will be available a little later. It's VERY nice.

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If anyone wants a Polo powered early Porsche and wants to save a couple of years and a bunch of dollars, then have a look here:

https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/por...-1968-4051164/

I couldn't reproduce that in a car this clean for 250. Super clean 912, 70 to 90ish. 2.4 POLO carbed 75ish. POLO w/EFI 100ish. Then etc., etc., etc., for all the regeared trans, suspension, brake, and whatever other upgrades. Plus labor at ? an hour. This is a steel and you get it 12 to 36 months earlier. Immediately is the right time for baby boomers who are living in their last 1/4.

It’s time to service the car and get it ready for the Next driving season.

Love that rear bumper trim

Thanks Rick. It took many hours to make it fit. Then all the trim was sent out to be done in one batch.

LOVE the color

Golden Green. The gold center Fuchs make the green pop. We had black Fuchs on the car orginially and it didn’t have near the effect of the gold centers.

The MFI pump on the green car is being shipped to Fairchild. The engine is running too lean. We had to guess on the space cam. The 3.2 MFI engine with 46mm throttle bodies instead of 2.7RS's 38's and 41 mm ID SSI's instead of 38's can process a lot of air. The engine was producing 240hp at 15 to 1 at full throttle. It should produce some sporty numbers at 12.5 to 13 to 1 at full throttle. Anything over 250 and I'll be happy. But what I like more is the torque. Oh my.

I'm making up another set of oil coolers. I went too far on the first set. The car holds 13 to 14 quarts of oil. I couldn't get more than 190 degree temps no matter what I did. Drove to the Palm Springs Parade through Las Vegas in 115 degree temps, still 190. And on a 50 degree day, no more than maybe 160 to 170 degrees. These would probably do well on a big six. I prefer these coolers to the Carrera ones on Vintage Longhoods mostly for astatic reasons. They just look more period correct on the older cars. I've come to the conclusion, that these trombones work very well if you can keep the oil out of the engine and tank long enough. So I'll take them off and either sell them with a spare set of new Elephant crossover lines or hang them in the shop as wall art.
So I'm going from 3 loops on each side to about 1 1/2.

Anyone know if you can dip brass in a zinc tank? The threaded ends are steel, so I gun blue them. If brass can go in a zinc tank I would yellow zinc.

My climate here in JHWY is about the same as yours in Denver/front range. My 73S with the stock trombone works very well. The engine runs cool even on our hottest summer days. Here about high 80's low 90s. Driving up our passes it may spike a bit but comes right down on the descent. Hope you are good. Haven't been to D in a while. I hear Dave's busy. Skiing is great up here; going on 400" SS

Steve,
My wife was in Aspen and Beaver Creek all weekend.(4 days)
She said it was very good. Maybe not 400 inches good. Do you have any idea if Dexter W. is still alive and well?
Dave is VERY busy. I’m about to send another car in there this week. 69 Ultra Blau. Say safe and healthy.

Before these coolers I ran a single Carrera cooler and it couldn't keep my oil under 230 plus degrees on a 95 degree day with single digit humidity in Denver's foothills. So all I could do was back off and putter around to keep the temp under 220 degrees. Both of our engines displace 2.4 liters. A stock 2.4 S has a 8.5 compression ratio. My 993 P's and C's are 11.2 or 3. So this engine produces heat.
We'll see what I get with the next set.

The new oil coolers will go on probably over the next weekend.
I never realized you can zinc brass. I modified trombone oil coolers and had steel threaded ends welded on. The guy who welded on the ends put the lines under 150 PSI. No leaks. I called the company that does my zinc plating and they said it could be done. So here's one of them.
I also drained my oil (3 plus gallons) before removing the valve covers, pan plug, oil tank plug and oil filter.
My oil filter comes apart so I can do an inspection. A little super fine black material on the magnets but not even one speck of metal. Not even the size of the point of a sewing needle. Nothing. While the valve covers are off I removed and will replace the 8 spark plugs. Tomorrow I'll buy the plugs and a case of Champion 10-40 Synthetic blend. Oh and the cam lobes where perfect.

Everything trial fitted. Good for final install.