A` summary (of sorts) for Milou
I have taken up Milou's challenge to try and summarize where this thread is at to make it "more accessible".
I am not sure I have succeeded and I have certainly failed the "couple of paragraphs" test.:o However, here goes, I hope I have not missed anything major out or misrepresented anything or anyone:
Initially the thread asked whether the car #8 RSR in the factory museum was being misrepresented as the actual Targa Florio winner from 1973 or not given that the real winner was RSR 0588 or “R6” which for many years has been owned by Peter Kitchak
The answer was; no it was not, as a careful reading of the words on the board describing the car in the museum show that it is portrayed as a car “representing” the factory prototype cars of that year (the “R” cars), and it is a real one at that, just it was not the 1973 Targa winner. However a cursory reading would leave the impression that the car in the museum was the Targa winner.
The thread then started to go in two directions:
1. what was the identity of the museum car;
2. what was the identity of the cars at the 1973 Targa Florio, how many cars were really there and everything about them etc
and then Jim Calzia dropped the really big question pointing out the oil door on car #9, which was RS 020 or R2, and supposedly the factory museum car, and asking how come it seems to be on a 72 tub…….
This lead to an examination of all the cars that were supposed to be there and fantastic period video was posted along with a lot of photos being unearthed.
It also lead to a critical examination of the origins of the 1973 RSR cars (the R prototype cars in particular) and whether any were converted ST’s, and along the way a detailed examination of which cars were in what events etc (this is still ongoing and is throwing up lots of discrepancies in the records).
There was a particular emphasis on the history and origins of R2, the car that is supposed to be the museum car, and car #9 at the Targa, as well as car 107 at the Targa which also had an oil door.
From all of that (over a couple of years worth of posts) it emerged that:
• The winner was indeed the Kitchak car R6 (RS 0588)
• R2, car #9 at the Targa and the car that is supposed to be the car in the museum, was built on a shell with an oil door ie a 1972 tub (its exact origins are still unclear ie built new on a 72 tub or a converted ST and why); it was Larousse’s rallye car #2 at the Tour de Corse in November 1972 (with an oil door) an as an RS prototype competition car but not yet an RSR; it went to Paul Ricard race track for tests to create an RSR track car; it went to the Le Mans test in April 1973 as RSR car 61 (not car 62 as the records show) and then to the Targa as car #9 and then to Le Mans as car 48 for Gregg; then to the factory test track to test 917 wheels and what looks like a prototype "long tail" on it; and apparently then was rebuilt as the car now seen in the museum; but before it went there it was tested by Frere and several other journalists. THERE IS STILL SOME DOUBT ABOUT THE LAST PART OF THIS – (from going to Le Mans onwards )
• Car 107 created much of the interest for a long time. It was a practice car that was not intended to compete. The actual car intended to compete was R8 (RS 0974) that had raced with R6 at Monza but it got wrecked in practice. The issues included whether there were more than one practice car, if so which one was used in the race, what was its identity, was it an ST or an RS,– or was it a converted ex race car with a number below the first real RS which starts at RS 0011. This in turn led on to the existence of two such cars RS 0001 (which Raj on the board has) and RS 0002 the ex Strahle ST converted to a RS and used as the press car for photographs. It has been agreed that car 107 was the ex Strahle car and now the main thing unresolved is what happened to it and to confirm its registration number is LEO ZA 60 not LEO ZA 68, as on the models of it, and to confirm that there are not two cars, one with each number. A part of the confusion is the one car (RS002) seems to have had many different identities at the Targa; as practice car 108T, practice car 107T and as race car 107 with two different liveries, one with an “arrow” martini bonnet and the other with a “U” martini livery.
• In turn confusion has been created between R2 (RS 020) and RS002 and whether or not they were the same car, along with what ever happened to R1 and did it exist or was IT RS0001 – ie the car Raj has which is an ex Zasada ST rallye car converted by the factory to an RS with proper RS numbers etc.
• Along the way the were also questions about the role of the two factory ST’s in the 1972 Monte Carlo and whether they may have ended up as one of the RS cars in question or been integral in creating the RS / RSR cars? It turns out that at least one of them still exists at present and that is unlikely that either was used in this way.
• This has now evolved into looking at which “R” cars were at which 1973 race and trying to track them from one event to another. It is not helped by the fact that they did evolve from race to race and sometimes within an event. Also the records that are on many websites of chassis numbers for each car in various cases appear to be incorrect. It has also evolved into an examination of the origins and ultimate destinations of each of these cars which were the ultimate racing expressions of the longhoods. (only 8 R cars were officially built in 1972 / 73 and even that is subject to question as R1 may not have existed and some like R4 may have had multiple identities or a very short life)
Unresolved questions include;
• Did car 48 at Le Mans have an oil door; we have seen lots of photos but not one clear enough to answer this
• Did R1 (RS019) ever exist; if so what was it used for, what did it look like and what happened to it?
• What happened to car 107 at the Targa (RS002)?
• Was R2 a converted ST or built deliberately on a 1972 tub? And
• Are we really sure the car in the museum is R2?
• Why are the holes on the door for a flag mirror, piecing the Martini livery, and the indent of a flag mirror base on the car in the Frere picture if it was the #48 Sonauto car which had different livery and a different mirror?
The thread is also now looking at whether there might be pictures of two of the Targa cars (107 and 9), possibly in Targa livery, at pre training for the Nurburgring 1000km a week after the Targa.
