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David
this is getting very anal.......BUT that is a very good pick up
this is a closeup of one of the other pics you sent me from the same source
the dint is definitely there in the museum car
now to find a similar picture of the 48 car at le mans :p :eek:
Hello,
Thank you for the pictures of this car. It allows me to realize this model for GTLegend.
http://www.enregistrersous.com/image...0213111206.jpg
Gentlemen:
Recently, I was fortunate enough to have my friend in Milan, Mauro Borella, interview Baron Gianfranco Pucci, the brother of Giulio Pucci, who drove the race #107 RS/RSR with Gunther Steckkonig. Gianfranco Pucci spoke with his brother and Giulio Pucci told us that "The team (Martini Porsche), came with three team cars and one training car" These would have been, acording to the factory, two Group 5 RSRs, 911 360 0588, (R6, the eventual winner), 911 360 0974 (R8), a Group 4 GT RS/RSR, (PRESUMABLY 911 360 0020, (R2) and the "Mongrel", 911 360 0002.
Pucci then says that he rolled the #9 car in first practice; The mechanics repaired the car in time for qualifying, during which Pucci hit a tree coming into Campofelice and damaged the car so badly that: "The tree went inside the body of the car until half of it, where there is the gear lever! Happily for my brother his seat was on the other side...the car was completely destroyed. But we were very happy all the same as the sister car of Muller-Van Lennep won the race overall.”
I went back through Mauro to Giulio Pucci, who confirmed that he was absolutely certain that he crashed the same car twice. He further confirmed that, in the photographs on this thread, you can see the damage caused by his first accident to R8 in the shot of it in qualifying, just before he wrecked it completely.
So that was the end of R8, 911 360 0974.
Now contrast this with Singer's recollection in his book: 24:16: "We had two bad accidents in practice, one with Pucci who bent his car very badly against a tree. We had a lot of work to straighten that car, and even on race morning we had to use a crowbar to fit a new driveshaft."
Notice that he only credits Pucci with ONE accident; I think there must have been THREE accidents in practice and qualifying; This would account for one Group 5 RSR, R8 being destroyed; This would mean that one of the "T" cars took it's place, probably 911 360 0002, which was the "Mongrel" and that the Group 4 GT car was 911 360 0020 (Race # 107, R2), which apparently, is in the Porsche Museum.
I hope this helps.
John Starkey
Hi John
That is great news that you have received some first hand information from Pucci.
BUT.........
I am confused by a couple of things in your post.
You posted that Pucci rolled car #9 which by inference was R8, and then wrote it off by hitting a tree.
But the records that I have only show him cross entered in car 107 and 108. I thought that the original car 107 (or maybe 108) was R8, which was the car destroyed, not car 9.
Also in the posts by David above (WERK1), I think he conclusively shows that the tub in the museum is / was car 9 which seems to be R2 (as claimed by the museum). I cant see the same damage that is on the tub of car 9, and on the museum car still in 1980, on either of the other cars at the targa.
Also, there seems to be enough photographic evidence to support a history of this car all the way through its different incarnations (with perhaps an exception, so far, for the Le Mans race) from its inception to the placement in the museum.
So i would have thought that if you substituted car 107 for car 9 in your post above, it all hangs together with the photographic and other written evidence as well as what the museum says:
ie modifying your words:
"I think there must have been THREE accidents in practice and qualifying; This would account for one Group 5 RSR, R8 being destroyed; This would mean that one of the "T" cars took it's place, probably 911 360 0002, as car #107 which was the "Mongrel" and that the Group 4 GT car was 911 360 0020 (Race # 9, R2), which apparently, is in the Porsche Museum."
Also do you know what Pucci means by the following statement "He further confirmed that, in the photographs on this thread, you can see the damage caused by his first accident to R8 in the shot of it in qualifying, just before he wrecked it completely."
It would be great if the post number could b pinpointed as the only damaged cars I could see were car #9 which , as I noted above, I did not think was the car that Pucci was driving.
Hello Hugh.
Well, apologies! You are right Hugh. My mistake; Of course, 911 360 0974, (R8), was car #107 in practice/qualifying for the 1973 Targa Florio; I had got mixed up with Pucci's reference to a photograph of the crashed car.
The only car I could see with damage was #9 but that was the car that must have had the third accident in practice/qualifying but was (obviously!) patched up for the race, and also received 0974's engine after that was crashed in qualifying, for the race proper.
So now we have, of the eight RSRs of 1972/3, the following summaries:
911 360 0001: Re-numbered by the factory from S/T # 911 230 0769.
911 360 0002: Re-numbered by the factory from S/T # 911 230 0841. Notable race career, vanishes after July, 1973.
911 360 0019: Supposedly R1 but never actually seems to appear.
911 360 0020: R2. The RS that is turned into an RSR in late 1972, notable race history, apparently the car in the Porsche museum, painted to represent the 1973 Targa winner.
911 360 0307: R3. This was the Penske-entered car at the Daytona 24-hours 1973 which, driven by Mark Donohue/George Follmer, damaged a piston and retired. Race no: 6. Sold to Al Holbert, crashed end of 1973, re-tubbed, (twice). Now wears chassis number of a 1975 replacement chassis.
911 360 0328: R4. 1973 Daytona 24 Hour winner. Returned to the factory afterwards, what happened to it is unclear but the chassis plate has surfaced in Italy; POSSIBLY, the car may have been rebuilt and re-numbered as the longtail RSR sent to Brumos (911 360 0686 R7) later in 1973 for the July Watkins Glen races.
911 360 0576; R5. 1973 races, crashed at the Nurburgring 1000Kms, converted into a 1974 Turbo Carrera RSR by the factory. In 2002-4, car was converted back to 1973 RSR spec. Sold to Brad Hook.
911 360 0588; R6. 1973 races, very successful, winning Vallelunga, Le Mans 4 Hours and Targa and then converted into the Penske longtail for July Watkins Glen races. Sold, restored to Targa winning spec, with Peter Kitchak.
911 360 0686; R7. European World Championship races, won GT class at the Austrian 1000Kms, converted to Longtail spec, sent to Gregg/Haywood for Watkins Glen races in July, sold to Hector Rebaque, ran Le Mans in 1974. Damaged in trailer, parts and rights sold to Diego Febles, then sold to a U.S. customer, car being restored/rebuilt.
911 370 0974; R8. Destroyed in 1973 Targa Florio practice.
So, ten cars apparently built to RSR spec in 1972/3. Six cars either written off/badly damaged/vanished/never built?
Thank you so much, "Cailler" for that Washington photos.
We can clearly see that the right rear fender on the #48 RSR, having been damaged during the Targa Florio, has been completely replaced with a new one BUT the factory racing department hadn't had time to repair the damage to the rocker panel AND repaint the car yellow and green in time for Le Mans.
So this is 911 360 0020, R2 and it appears to be in the Porsche museum today; So I wonder: Is there, somewhere in the World, a Lightweight RS 2.7 with the chassis number: 911 360 0019? Intriguing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAILLER
That Sonauto shot shows the damage to the rocker still present, but also shows external oil lines added, which were not on #9 at the TF. Nice addition to the documentation.
Gib
Fantastic photo of the 48 car. There can be no doubt in the lineage of this car from #9 to #48 to museum car.
As far as the oil lines are concerned you can see the metal tabs for the brackets on the #9 car at Targa
Attachment 42978
One thing I've noticed is that two websites on the 73 Le Mans race list chassis no's on the race cars and they list the #48 car as being 9113601033, #46 9113600686 and #47 9113600588.
Do these numbers sound right to everyone and in the right order?
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-10-photo.html
http://www.teamdan.com/archive/wsc/1973/73lemans.html
Sorry, just re read this post by Hugh which answers my question on the chassis no of the #48 car at Le Mans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH