The real 73 RSR TF Winner - Porsche Factory Scam??

Hi Raj

No i dont know the number
I have been trying to work it out for some time - firstly to work out whether or not it is a "real ST" and if so what its identity is.

Its first competition event was:
03.04.1972
300 km race Nürburgring
(1st round for the GT Europe cup)
Günther Steckkönig
race number 131
3rd place
Strähle KG

It is featured on the FREISINGER MOTORSPORT website http://www.freisinger-motorsport.de/...ssic_911s.html
which also shows the identity tag but it has too much glare on the photo to make out the numbers. The site does call it a 911S though, and it is definitely a 72 car. I have seen period pictures of it with both silver and black horn grills.

this and a couple of other threads on ST's, including that great list of 1972 ones that you posted, has had me thinking that we should try to do a ST thread to try to:

1 identify what IS an ST, or what it is that makes an ST a "real" ST given that they do not have a specific chassis number series to identify them like R's or RS's (or even if there is one or two specific things (apart from a letter from the factory) that can be used to determine whether a car is a "real ST" or not). I know that John Starkey and others have done a lot of work in this area.

2 identify, if possible, ST's built by the werks versus cars converted by customers or dealers using factory kits, versus cars made up from scratch by teams such as Kremer or Strahle, (this car may be one of those).

3 try, as far as possible, to put together a list of ST's with photos - period and current to see if they can be documented. I have details on maybe 30 to 35 cars that I think are genuine ST's. hopefully with the resources of this board they can either be confirmed or otherwise and added to.

here is another photo of the car at the Coupes Benelux, Nivelles (B) (4th round for the GT Europe cup) in July 1972.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Milou

The guy is a local politician trying to prevent the Targa race from being cancelled; he explains how essential it is for a pilot to drive at the Targa and how a win at the Targa separates the champions from the rest....

.

---

Yes, the mayor has style.
What a fantastic record of that era.

I wonder which Porsche that last in car video is from - sounds (and go's) like it could be one of the RSR"s ?
Sure would love to see the whole documentary.

Hi Raj

i think I need to get my eyes replaced or a bigger screen :)

i blew the picture of the car with the snow on the edges of the track up (attached) but can only see a hint of a rectangular hole - and then i am not sure if i am imagining it or not

i dont have a copy of the FIA homologation for gp 4 pre 72 /73 - ie pre RSR do you?
if so can you post it on the ST thread? then we can compare with the RSR one.

Raj, Hugh, here are a few more pics of the Strahle car in case you haven't seen them. Always wondered about that central oil cooler.
Nick

In regards to the move of the fender oil cooler to the front central location.

In '73 the 911 RSR competed in the FIA Sportscar 3.0 category (Prototype). Thus they could mount the oil cooler wherever they wanted to. They were not hampered by FIA GT rules anymore. In '72 Porsche entered the 911 in the GT category as it was not deemed fast enough to compete for outright victory. The rules for GT were based on production cars, so they had to retain the fender mounted oil cooler.
So perhaps the move to the front oil cooler in '73 was just a matter of efficiency.


Best,
n.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by varunan123

Hugh

I have recently noticed that the number3 martini car has a square cut out as in the ST's on the spoiler(please look back at the number 5 stahle car and look also at the horizontal lip at the bottom of the spoiler and the factory photo with the red car and then this with the time line we proposed).The other piece of history i have been paying attention to is the center oil cooler-i think the general thinking is that the center oil cooler came along to handle the increased load by the racing engine,but in fact it was derived because the FIA requirement made the fender oil cooler system non conforming because of the height.The center oil cooler thus evolved due to FIA regs unless someone can point to another reason.Please refer to the FIA requirement for oil cooler placement and it is pretty obvious the 72 set up was no longer conforming.

Raj

---

Raj:

Here is a shot of the Strahle ST with a bare front oil cooler, which others used also in some races in 72. I think the front oil cooler was an evolution as it was more effective and still allowed the use of the driver side fender well for a tranny cooler, which most 72 STs used I think. The Kremer ST initially had a tranny cooler in that left fender but found the single front engine cooler was not sufficient for track work.

Also a shot of the Strahle ST as it has been restored showing the dual front oil cooler arrangement and black bumper, which I have not found documented in a race yet. If it was an FIA requirment that caused the change to the front cooler, others were not complying as you see the Strahle ST competing in many events with STs having no front cooler.

Finally, a factory shot of a 72ST with no rectangular openings in the front spoiler/bumper. Apparently, it was a customer mod to cut those openings for brakes and/or oil coolers.

PS Just remembered this shot of a brand new factory built ST with the spoiler openings, so it must have been an option from the factory.

From Wikipedia...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by varunan123

Sorry

don't mean to disagree but the RSR was not conceived as a prototype but group 4 then 5 and eventually to prototype because of protest by the italians and then to prototype class and gentlemans agreement to not race against customers in their class.

Raj

---

I agree, the 911 was always a 'production based' race car. I didn't mean to imply that the RSR was conceived as a prototype but it ran in the prototype class.

Cheers,
n.

Raj:

Here are some shots of various STs that had front oil coolers prior to 73 (I think). One is the Strahle ST in an earlier form maybe. I think the other 2 were from 72 events.

Hi Raj / Gib

that #40 Strahle car was at the 1971 targa -ie a full 12 months earlier
I have some other photos attached - so it wont be the same car as the yellow one is a 72.
I am sure I can find earlier centre mount oil coolers - i will have to look but probably wont post for a couple of days (unless i find them quickly) as i will be away

the 22 car was a 1972 entry at the targa for Claude Haldi / Bernard Cheneviére

Gib

here are 2 pictures that look to be period (one has the car with the famous Strahle registration plates WN V2 so it must have been taken within his ownership you would have thought). Both show the black bumper but the race number is 137 on the car. The Freisinger site shows the cars first race as 03.04.1972; 300 km race Nürburgring as race #131. - not 137 - and no record of a race #137 in its history. The race history sites show the same although the source data they all used may be wrong. There were not many events where such high race numbers were displayed so I am at a loss as to when they were taken.