Ultimate ST thread

As to the one, which Jabouille drove in April'72(early in the season), maybe entered from Porsche directly, I thought at first that it could have been sold afterwards to one of the German teams or drivers. But I found two pics now, where the car - completely restored -was shown in Monaco/ France at a local collector cars exhibition in 2014. This would not exclude my first assumption completely..., but apparently it could have stayed in France.

Btw: The M491 from Juergen Krzikalla was tangerine, not sepia according to the Norisring race pic(the one behind the 914/6)

Attachment 406324

Attachment 406325

Great to see the Kubero car in action Mikael and for the confirmation of what it started out as.
Wolf. That is a great find on the Jabouille car. At least it confirms it cant be the light yellow car that went to Vasek Polak after a year or so in Europe. It is also good to see it survived as well. Are there any members on the board that can find a vin number from those Monaco plates on the car? I know you can in some countries but not all.

Yes the later photo shows that the Krzikalla car was tangerine - i always thought that sepia was unlikely :-) I have edited the earlier post as well to say that it was tangerine. I think that knowing this Jabouille car was not the Polak one that 18 have been identified now even if all the numbers cannot be placed against owners. Also i think that it is more likely than not that the list showing 2 cars to Sweden is incorrect and the one showing one to Spain and one to France is more likely to be correct.

In what configurations were the 2.3 liter motors built? Did they utilize the magnesium case from the 2.0 and mod the P&C's heads etc.? I'm currently going this route and have heard so many people utilizing later cases and or the early aluminum case. Compression will be set to 10.3:1. Pistons will be custom made and running twin plug. Car will see both street and limited track once built. Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks,
Philip

Did some further research regarding to the Jabouille car. I think it could have been raced at the '73 edition of the Tour Auto(Tour de France d'Automobile), which was reserved to national drivers then. Equipe Max Antichan – J Beaujon, #376, DNF.
Regarding to the new, blue Monaco-plates, I don't suppose that there will be a possibility to research anything. And the ones on Antichan's car are not to identify. But I am quite sure that the car has been restored by Scuderia Classica and maybe a (French) board member could contact Mr. Roddaro regarding to its VIN and history?
There are stickers with "COF-Racing" all over the bodywork, anyone who knows what this stands for?

Photos (C)Thierry-Le-Bras

Attachment 406423

Attachment 406424

Regarding to the Kinnunen car it would be interesting, if there were different specs for M491-rallye and (road-)race cars.
It has everything, incl. the rollbar(see b/w-pic att., behind the codriver), what we would expect of a M491.
It was raced still in 1980, then with AAV-911 plates

#10, Kinnunen Leo , Tunturiralli 1972

Attachment 406432

Kinnunen, Jussi Kuukkala - Hankiralli 1980

Attachment 406434

There is another one, which I wanted to throw in:
#73, LM'74 - 2 Heures de l’A.C.O., Essais préliminaires des 24 Heures du Mans
driver Jaques Hoden - 911 2,4 (Gr.4)
Swiss car? Sponsorhip by Tissot at least.

Attachment 406437

Great finds Wolf
Now that I have seen the registration plate on the green rallye car I found some more photos in my files
Attachment 406457Attachment 406458

from these photos and the ones you posted I think it is certain that this is a Customer M491 car.
now all we have to do is try to find a number for it. Maybe Thomas l or one of the other guys in that region will have some contacts and be able to find out.
I dont think that there would be many changes apart from suspension needed for rallye work. Obviously they would have more protection built in and different lights etc. However the two factory M491 cars 00041 and 47 were originally rallye cars not track cars. It depends on the type of rallye - the Spanish would not need much as they were mainly tarmac rallies there. The Scandinavian car may ave needed more modification but AAW and Kinnunen had lots of experience with 911 rallye cars.

That was a great pick up with the yellow car at the TdF. I dont have many post 1973 photos apart from where i am tracking a registration plate on a car over time. I will try to work out what the licence plate is on that photo and try to see if I have any other photos of it.

I am not sure about that last Hoden car. the front spoiler is wrong for a 72 so it may be earlier but other things like the horn grills, roll age and cut-off switch look like they may be correct. But after a year or more from new who knows what might be altered.

I have been informed by PM overnight that the Kinnunen car was indeed a M491 customer car - 911 230 0550. So that is now 2 cars that are confirmed rallye cars in contrast to (I think) the general belief that these were track cars only.

It would be great if someone on the board could find the number of the Jabouille car and could confirm if the rallye car that went to Spain was really #1144 as per Dr K or not.
Also it would be good to know if the car that Karl Heinz Feustel had in the 1980's was the yellow car he has now (was Karim's mechanics car 01417) or was another one. The list I first posted suggests that it was a completely separate one that originally went to Switzerland. Does anyone on the board know him well enough to ask him?

HughH;

Regarding the car driven by Jean-Pierre Jabouille in 1972 , this car was one of the two belonging to SONAUTO ( Porsche distributor in France whose owner was "Toto VEUILLET").
those two cars were Light Ivory and entered their first race in Paris GT championship - april 72 : N° 19 driven by BALLOT-LENA won the race and N°10 driven by J.P JABOUILLE did not finish.

happy new year

JD

Hi JD
Happy new year to you as well

I had looked at that Ballot Lena car at Montlhéry but rejected it as a M491 customer car. It was an "ST" and had a 2492 cc engine in 1972 But I think it was more likely to have been constructed with the kit from Porsche. (below I have the details of the car I think it was). Here is a photo of it at Montlhéry and another at Nivelles in July. I am certain both are the same car.
Attachment 406842Attachment 406843

You can see from both photos that it does not have the characteristic front spoiler of the M491 customer cars or the cut off switch up near the driver on the LHS near the window. It appears to be in the front LHS horn grill opening. More importantly Wolf pointed out that these cars ALL seem to have the roll bar brace angling down from the top at the RHS (LHS of photo when looking at the car from the front) to the bottom behind the driver on the LHS. Earlier cars, and it appears (most?) customer built cars such as the Kremer and Brumos built cars, have it angling the other way as does this Sonauto car. It is easier to see it in the colour photo from Nirvelles but it is also there in the Paris photos I have. Here is a picture of the Kremer Built MY-AT 50 car at Nurburgring in April 1973 where the same configuration of roll bar is clearly seen.
Attachment 406845

I am not even convinced at this stage that the Ballot Lena car was a 72 although I have no really good photos of the correct areas to look at. However the inside rear vision mirror does look like a 72 car in this photo below but there is no sign of the oil door. However that could be the quality of the photo.
Attachment 406854

I have a suspicion that it may actually be 911 020 699 a Group 4 "kit car" registered 293 LX 86, initially built up by Robert Buchet and Sonauto as a 2.3ST for the 1971 TdF with Ballot Lena as driver. That car was later upgraded to 1972 2492 specs for Ballot Lena for the 1972 French Circuits championships, which it won, and did compete in the European GT championship with Ballot Lena. I am certain the car at Nirvelles was that car and it later was car #99 at the 1973 TdF (looking like an RS) for Desvignes-Carrier.