Ultimate ST thread

130 1251 1971 ST for sale
This car is being offered for sale by Sports Purpose in the UK and has been referenced on a recent FS thread on the board. I was wondering what Hugh knows about this car as the seller mentions that “It is also included in the list of factory S-T chassis compiled by Porsche historian Hugh Hodges and recently published in 000 Magazine.” I am surprised that the seller makes no mention of any competition history, so important for a genuine ST, and I could not find any reference to it on pbase so it is a bit of a mystery as to what it is, considering the price it is being offered at.

This car is a great example to show how broad a range the designation "ST" is - especially pre-1972. I have not seen the original build records for the car but according to Porsche GB supplied information (and we all know that sometimes needs to be queried) this car came new from the factory as a lightweight car (M471 in 1971) and was equipped with a roll bar, "sport equipment" detailed, in part, as a centre fill 62L fuel tank, longer wheel bolts with spacers at the rear, a lighter production body with mounting points for roll bar and harnesses , thinner glass etc

There seems to be some mystery about the gearbox fitted - the documentation says "airfield ratios" the transmission number and type show a 911/01 type number with serial number "319312" (which means 7319312 as they typically left the first 7 off the number in the printed records as the 7 stands for 6 cylinder engine and it was apparently done to save memory space on the early computers). That is an "airfield box" number - the 12th of that series and its correct type number is 911/82. However the photos of the car currently show a number 7117928 and while they claim that it is a "Nurburgring" ratio box (and it probably has been built as one)the case is for a stock 1971 gearbox. It appears to have been originally built with a standard "S" spec engine rather than one modified for more power but a lot of competition ST's were as well - especially rally cars. Currently it appears to have a Rugen built 2.3 engine of the type that were used in Circuit ST's of the time.

So under the rather broad definition of "factory built ST" being a car built initially for sporting purposes this one seems to fit on the information available. It does appear that it has had limited competition history and probably none in period but some of these cars were bought as fast street cars - not unlike many owner modified cars today or limited edition factory "hot rods" from different manufacturers.

Apart from "factory built" cars there were many other "ST's" built from factory kits by non factory organizations like Kremer, Wicky, Brumos etc. Almost all of these were for competition

So this fits somewhere in the broad spectrum of "sports purpose" 911's of the era with (arguably) factory use competition cars at the top of the list, factory built competition cars for private owners next, other factory built cars (like this one) and then cars built with factory kits for competition by recognized organizations and maybe finally individually modified cars by owners using factory supplied parts.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Hugh. This is one of the reasons why, as a new board member, I seem to be spending a huge amount of time reading so many fascinating threads on here, but in my particular case, this one and Tom’s ‘Another Hot Rod Project’ thread are my real go-tos for my own upcoming project.

I have seen a lot of Certificates for old ST and RSR'S but never such a detailed like the shown one.
Sorry guys, but never ever is this a certificate based on old documents and the build card, it's a certificate with an origin in 2021.

I guess the seller wanted to try and add to the car’s authenticity by obtaining the essential COA? (although I have been informed by Porsche Club GB that PCGB stopped issuing these in 2018, when I asked if I could obtain one for my ‘72T.)

I know that it is a new COA and the difficulties with that but I also know that it is not a 2021 one - I first saw in in late 2017 which is when I filed it away. Also while you dont normally see that detail on a COA, and I was surprised when I saw it first, the details there are not dissimilar to what I have seen on build sheets for ST's of the time. The major difference is that the details of the "sport equipment" option are spelled out in detail rather than the normal practice of just showing "sport equipment" without the detail of what was in it. . So while I am a bit skeptical of any recent COA I think on balance you have to give this one the benefit of the doubt. Also a lot of what is covered in the "sport equipment" option is really a part of the M471 option (lightweight)

Also if you could access the build book it would be clear enough - if it is accurate and really a M471 car it should have 930Kg handwritten in the build book against the vin number although this one is for a 1970 car

Attachment 556836

Iirc Chris Craft was MD PCGB half a dozen years to 2018. Can’t comment on the particular certificate. The one for my 73 car was woeful accuracy but I had the factory build sheet so got it corrected. Several attempts by them. At one time the Porsche Club members got them free or big discount. That’s only reason I bothered.

Steve, was this car previously for sale a few years back with Maxted page & prill.? If it is the same car i seem to remember a reference to Jurgen Barth mentioned in the description... Might explain the COA. Maybe i dreamt it.:):)

I can’t say I know this car Dave.

i am owner of 1383 mentionned by Hugh, i never saw such a description in COA ,i looked at photos of car and it certainly not came from the factory that way
what is asking price ,just curious