Ultimate ST thread

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Originally Posted by patrick911

I'm speculating here, but I would assume this is part of the word "Ausfuhrung" or "version" / "Type".

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Attachment 599540
Here is the empty document that answers the questions. Yeah, from what I see...
That vehicle was requested as a 911 T for something. With S instruments... advised by someone who sold Porsches at 115. So, I think... someone who would know more than us at that time. I only have to clarify if when marking the Typ that T that comes out after 911 is a T for "light" or refers to S, E or T. From my point of view. That document says that a 911T with a box engine and bodywork of a 911S was requested. Because?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uai

@_gonbau as you are often very peculiar when it comes to numbers and dates:
I stumbled yesterday upon a stash of old Fahrzeugbriefe. And to answer a question you've asked before: you cannot guess age or date of first registration upon their Fahrzeugbrief number.
I have some examples where e.g. a car that has a later modelyear has an earlier Brief Number.

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Hello, I believe that there will be cases where it doesn't correspond, but according to my thinking, for example, knowing the Fahrzeugbriefe prefix, you would know the year in almost all cases... At least, you could place it temporally. Finding the exact month is more complicated, but I understand that with many examples, you could potentially figure it out. I would be delighted if you could publish some of those numbers in the corresponding post. So far, from what I've seen... they all have an increase from lower to higher.
Regarding 1081, the kfz is attached "for the first time" to the MAX invoice, so when it arrived at MAX in March, it already had an owner. I believe the document accompanying the vehicle mentions that the first payment for the vehicle was made in February (question: would Porsche put a car in your name without having paid a single mark of the vehicle's price?) In February, at the earliest, it would be the first date when Pelske could be the owner of 1081, right?
I'm certain that many, many kfz from January and February correspond to my numbers and those of 1081 in proximity, and I'm not only referring to Porsche (although here the theory could come into play that KFZs came in pre-numbered batches for each manufacturer or something similar). If anyone has more examples of this, let's discuss it in the other post.
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Attachment 599541

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HughH

Baudett

I dont think there is any record of this being a "company car"
From my reading of the documents you have posted as well as other ones I have :
It was produced (final production date) December 1971. The Barth document says produced before 31 December

on 1 March 1972 it shows delivery of Porsche to Hahn Porsche central warehouse
on 27 March 1972 it was delivered from Hahn to Max Moritz as a new vehicle

So it would have been sitting in the yard at the factory between January and March - as a lot of cars would have been.

Hahn (115) at Stuttgart was a "central handler" - one of the six in Germany where orders were placed through. Max Moritz at Reutlingen also had handler 115 against it but was obviously a sub handler for Hahn hence the car going via the Hahn central warehouse first

I dont have a copy of the KFZ so I dont know when it was dated. However as it was for German delivery it would require a KFZ I would suggest that it was filled out by the factory soon after production so it was then ready for sale. I dont know why that was done 3 months before delivery (if it was) but it may just have been the process to do those for German delivery cars when they were completed

Edit: while the letter says produced before December 31, I dont think that is correct (like a lot of other details on letters from Barth on numerous cars). I have records of "production dates" of S's from around that Vin and while i know that they are more likely to be invoice dates or warranty dates (when the car is sold) they are all in March and the likely December dates are in the 500 vin range not the 1000 vin range

If you have evidence of a KFZ dated in January for this car please post it.. That comment about internal delivery could simply mean that it was delivered to the customer race department (from the standard production line) instead of being finished on the standard production line to get it to full M471 spec and add whatever extra bits were necessary. All other ST's were produced that way and while this was not a factory ST as such it may have been finished off in that manner

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What weight did 1081 have? If I understand the explanation of "T," it is a light vehicle. If this vehicle was made "light" from the factory, why doesn't 471 appear in any document? I don't have KFZ, only the number mentioned above on the MAX invoice. According to the invoice shown to us from Hahn to Max, it doesn't mention m471 or anything similar at any point. What am I missing?
Attachment 599542
The only POSSIBLE evidence that I think, that the kfz was dated in January, is the proximity to the kfz of my vehicle that was delivered in January in Hahn.
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Another Max:
Attachment 599548
1081:
Attachment 599549
31 Dec 72
How did MAX know, if this document has existed since March, what would bill exactly that number of orders...?

Was this invoice issued in March or was it issued later, in December, as does the invoice mark? I know that it is questioning the real data but I would like the question to be written here. They may have estimated with last year's sales volume....?
Nº/No.

If you insist you got your alternative facts.
But it isn't always as you think it is

For example top row: 1820856 is a 1952 Car and 2753697 is a 1951 car

Attachment 599543

kfz 1970 911E "39 400590" sold 116 Mahag Munchen oct 1969
kfz 1972 911S "45 149834" sold 115 Hahn 25 Jan 1972 "porsche 1 Jan 1972"*refer date Porsche France 19/1/72**18
kfz 1972 911S "45 150076" sold 115 Hahn 31 Dec 1971
kfz 1972 911"S" "45 775329" sold 113 Lintorf 1 July 1972https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...this-car/page2
Kfz 1973 911RS "49 614787" sold 114 Glockër 17 april 1973
kfz 1975 911 2.7 "52 050855" sold 116 Mahag Munchen 21 febr 1975 "porsche 3 febr 1975"*18
*

300000 year?
https://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?162599-KFZ-Brief-Nr/page2
Are those documents the same age as the 1951 vehicle?
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Why the "so low" price on invoices if it is a light vehicle?
The "S/R" had the following price as an example and I know that 1081 does not fall into the "S/R" I think but what was the approximate price for a "light" customer race
Attachment 599588
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...ice#post415586

This is a well equipped 911 but I don't know if it's a 1972 racing car, I don't think so
Attachment 599589
36k Marks against the price of 1081 34k Deutsch Marks

Those Serial# Numbers are for ALL registered Cars in germany registered cars not only Porsche.
Those papers are Printed by the Bundesdruckerei

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _gonbau

Here is the empty document that answers the questions. Yeah, from what I see...
That vehicle was requested as a 911 T for something. With S instruments... advised by someone who sold Porsches at 115. So, I think... someone who would know more than us at that time. I only have to clarify if when marking the Typ that T that comes out after 911 is a T for "light" or refers to S, E or T. From my point of view. That document says that a 911T with a box engine and bodywork of a 911S was requested. Because?

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Baudett
As I said a few posts ago I read that document as an order for a 5 speed 911S coupe
the highlighted part on the picture I have re-posted shows most of the order code. that is the order codes that were in use at the time. You can see it recorded in all maintenance booklets at the time as well as in most sales documents for cars sold at that time. This was an order process that came in in about 1970. I am not sure how long it lasted but certainly past 1973.
Attachment 599550

Here is a maintenance book for a 71S you can see the Fahrzeug-Typ at the top is 911534 translating to
911 car,
5 (body) for an S coupe
3 (engine) for a S engine
4 (gearbox) for a 5 speed manual
Attachment 599556

@HughH I admire your persistence

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uai

@HughH I admire your persistence

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I admire his patience,,,;):D

Hello everyone, even though it sounds and looks offensive, I am going to use the red lines that Huhhg has highlighted for me to highlight what I am saying and asking since it seems to me that the reading compression is not working as it should, therefore , instead of so many words, I resort to "drawings". Maybe this is better understood?
Attachment 599648
because someone who knows about porsche (sells them) fills out that form putting in TYP 911T even though he fills out the documentation with 534... And then adds the S instruments to the car by means of the extra M414. It is understood that it is known that they are not asking for an S. Despite the fact that the number that Huhg remarks is what it is, on the form we also see that T next to the supposed 911... Why was this done? And where does the reference to the T that Jurguen makes in his letter come from? difficult to understand what I say? I don't think so... in all the comments above it is explained in the same way, but the answer I get is that it put number 534... Where is the extra m414 and the TYP 911T? And barth's letter....?
So, Jurgen's dates in the letter are wrong? This vehicle was not used or used internally before the year 72. So, this car was worth 33 German marks?