Let's break it down as I have been thinking about this for awhile now:
non-original = non-matching numbers (chasis, engine, tranny), paint or paint color, body panels, etc.
hot rod = larger engine, performance parts.
driver = street legal, no $20k paint jobs, no plans to concours.
With that said, seems like one can throw about $30K (total) into a car and actually get it back these days. Would that be fair to say? Based on a few recent sales the hot rod cars are commanding some decent cash.
I hope so!! that's what I have been telling my Wife?
I have 2 hot rods I am into well over $40 Gsss each.
I would never sell them but it is nice to know you could.
My initial reaction was to agree with you but after some thought, I think that it is pretty tough to actually do. Rather, I think it has to be a very special car and a buyer that would mod it exactly the same way.
And I think it has to be done right, no cutting of corners. I don’t think you could just create a “sleeper” car or “Q” ship and get a premium dollar for it. For example, last summer there was a terrific early car based RS clone with a well documented 2.8 motor that the owner was practically giving away. . . Well under $28k as I recall. And I don’t see people getting their money back on otherwise stock SC’s upgraded to a 3.6 motor.
So, you might get some nice cash back out of a car as you describe it, but it won’t be quick or easy. And the cash will probably be less than 50% of what is invested unless you do most of the labor yourself. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. :D
If you need more 911 then just do it for you.
Take your lumps when its time to off it.
Be sure to take it to the track so you can get instant returns on your investment.
A hot rod 911 is thrill to drive near the limits on the track.
That early T is ready for the torch.:rolleyes: oops might have gone to far there.;)
Here's my take, according to Bob's scenario. The "hot rod" needs to have no issues and all of the following "trick" things to get it into the $30K plus range. A big motor (that can run easily on street gas), some rare wheels, a very cool interior, and a popular color.
I recently purchased a "hot rod" with 2 of the 4 things (plus a bunch of parts, some of which I sold). I fixed all the issues with the car and added the other two trick items: rare wheels and a cool interior. Total investment so far is way below $30K, and I believe it is now worth more than that.
My numbers matching E has the original 2.4 built up to 2.7 RS spec (acceptible mod), flared rear fenders with real RS flares (acceptible mod) 16" x 8" and 9" fuchs(acceptible...not sure???), real RS tail, and bumper ends (acceptible mod), mostly original paint (very acceptible), and later model 915 trans with LSD (changed out sportomatic....hopefully acceptible mod), later model gas tank with space saver(acceptible???don't know) Roll bar, ST seat, etc.....
I guess the more original the better, but some mods are more acceptible than others, and would attract a larger buying public if and when the day came to part with it. I also think that mods made that can be reversed to take it back to original is a good thing. I think the key is keeping the numbers matching matching items together if possible, motor and chassis staying together being the most important.
I agree with most of what is posted here. My bit & a half:
It is definitely possible, but to work I think:
-there seems to be a 'shopping' list of non-stock parts / mods that are de rigueur and acceptable to use, and others that are no nos & will get ridiculed. Some of this changes over time.
-any upgraded car needs to be a complete package... i.e. if you upgrade the engine you need to upgrade the suspension, brakes, maybe tranny, interior correspondingly. Also if the engine mechanicals are new the exterior & interior should probably look 'new' as well.
-you would probably need to do almost all the work yourself as labor rates would surely not be recoverable. Of course having work done by a respected professional is very desireable & will raise th evalue of the car... just not by enough. Ideally you would be a respected professional & do everything yourself ;)
-being good at picking up bargains on desirable parts helps.
As a recent buyer of a hot rod car I have to chime in. When I first started looking at early 911s seriously someone in the know asked me what I wanted from the car. I wanted something to drive. I didn't want a car that I'd be up all night polishing and afraid to use because its in such amazing shape.
I came across the car I bought on ebay. It had all of the right things: big motor recently built (2.9 w/ PMOs), right color (ivory white/positive red graphics), cool interior (scheel bucket) and the right wheels and of course overall good condition (no rust, big flaws etc.) . I jumped on it. My main reasoning being the recent motor build costing close to $15k. I figured w/ the big stuff out of the way I could then personalize the car further. I don't feel the need to go too deep on the performance side, this car gives great driving pleasure at moderate speeds. For on the limit track driving I have another toy.
Since I've had the car I've changed the seats (Scheel was too small for me) and had it generally sorted and I'm now butting up against the $30k number quoted here. But I'm comfortable with that. I know I could probably get out of the car for even money pretty easily now the car is in LA (more buyers for these cars here) and with the right buyer I could even make a small profit. In fact someone had asked me to name my price for it before it was even delivered.
But bottom line is I'm keeping it, and will make more changes over time. Its an awesome car to drive--I've put 1000 miles on it in the 2 1/2 months I've had it. I had an unforgettable run through a great canyon road yesterday and I know thats just the beginning. To quote a man I know is well respected in this community-- "These cars are for driving."
Let the speculators speculate. I'll invest in real estate not Porsches. Enough said.
Well,
As I am certainly not looking at a car like this as an investment, I too am headed down the track discussed here. I imagine over time, I will have 30+k in it, and will probably not see that amount on a sale.
That said, it will be what I've always wanted, built the way I like it, and be a whole lotta fun. Don't plan on selling it, but if I do, I know already that I will most likley not recoup my investment. But to me, that value of having and enjoying is also worth quite a bit. Life is short.
A.B.
I'm sure Porsche himself would salute every owner who spent the time to upgrade and modify their car to a higher standard of performance. He was never about originality. He was about shaving seconds off lap times. Getting to the finish line first. He was about ideas and ingenuity.
And I've got $30K into my car. Easy. Bought it four years ago with 64,000. I'll go over 90,000 in January '06. It's my daily driver. An investment in driving joy.
Happy Holidays to all. :D