major fraud in the classic porsche business in Germany

interesting article from Suddeutsche Zeitung dated December 2020
involving 906,907, 917 and RS/RSR...
Many of these cars were racing recently in Europe at Le mans Classic and Classic Endurance Racing races


8. Dezember 2020, 14:28 Uhr
Kriminalität - Aachen
:
Millionen-Betrug mit Porsche-Oldtimern: Anklage erhoben
Direkt aus dem dpa-Newskanal


Aachen (dpa/lnw) - Nach zweijährigen Ermittlungen hat die Staatsanwaltschaft Aachen Anklage gegen drei Männer wegen Millionenbetrugs mit teuren Oldtimern vor allem des Sportwagen-Herstellers Porsche erhoben. Hauptangeklagter sei ein 49 Jahre alter Sportwagen-Restaurator aus Aachen, bestätigte ein Sprecher des Aachener Landgerichts am Dienstag. Die weiteren Angeklagten sind ein 49-jähriger Düsseldorfer und ein 72 Jahre alter Mann aus Sachsenheim in Baden-Württemberg. Zuvor hatten mehrere Medien berichtet.

Der Aachener soll Sportwagen aus Chassis und Teilen aufgebaut, mit gefälschten Papieren und Gutachten als teure Oldtimer ausgegeben und teils für Millionensummen verkauft haben. Laut Anklage wurden neun Sport- und Rennwagen mit falschen Legenden als Original-Oldtimer an meist gutgläubige Kunden verkauft, sagte der Gerichtssprecher.

Hinzu kämen weitere Fälle, bei denen es nicht zum Abschluss kam. Die Wagen hätten als tatsächliche Originale einen erheblichen Wert - ein angeblicher Porsche 908-Rennwagen wurde beispielsweise auf 3,4 Millionen Euro taxiert. Der 72-jährige aus Baden-Württemberg sei ein ehemaliger Porsche-Mitarbeiter, der Insiderkenntnisse wie alte Fahrgestellnummern beigesteuert habe.

Laut den bisherigen Ermittlungen soll ein Mitarbeiter des Straßenverkehrsamtes Düren die Wagen zugelassen und den Betrug damit begünstigt haben. Gegen ihn laufe ein getrenntes Verfahren. Der Betrug war ans Licht gekommen, weil Unregelmäßigkeiten im Dürener Straßenverkehrsamt aufgefallen waren. Bei genauerer Untersuchung habe sich herausgestellt, dass die Verdächtigen immer mit einem bestimmten Mitarbeiter verbunden gewesen seien, sagte der Sprecher.

Quick google translation....

December 8, 2020, 2:28 p.m.
Crime - Aachen
:
Fraud with millions of Porsche classic cars: charges brought
Directly from the dpa news channel


Aachen (dpa / lnw) - After two years of investigations, the Aachen public prosecutor has brought charges against three men for fraud involving millions of expensive vintage cars, primarily from the sports car manufacturer Porsche. The main defendant is a 49-year-old sports car restorer from Aachen, a spokesman for the Aachen regional court confirmed on Tuesday. The other defendants are a 49-year-old man from Düsseldorf and a 72-year-old man from Sachsenheim in Baden-Württemberg. Several media had previously reported.

The Aachener is said to have built sports cars from chassis and parts, issued them as expensive oldtimers with forged papers and reports and sometimes sold them for millions. According to the indictment, nine sports and racing cars with false legends were sold as original classic cars to mostly bona fide customers, said the court spokesman.

There are also other cases that did not come to a conclusion. As actual originals, the cars are of considerable value - an alleged Porsche 908 racing car, for example, was valued at 3.4 million euros. The 72-year-old from Baden-Württemberg is a former Porsche employee who contributed insider knowledge such as old chassis numbers.

According to the previous investigations, an employee of the Düren Road Traffic Office is said to have registered the cars and thus encouraged the fraud. Separate proceedings are ongoing against him. The fraud had come to light because irregularities had been noticed in the Düren road traffic office. Upon closer examination, it was found that the suspects were always linked to a specific employee, said the spokesman.

See https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...scussion/page4 and
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...ighlight=Barth

also here:
https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...zerland+engine

Uwe Niemann of ex- Scuderia66 in Aachen.
Former Porsche employee thought to be Jürgen Barth.

Switzerland connection and business partner of Uwe Niemann was Tobias Nussbaum, ex- Flatsixcars GMBH of Büsserach / Basel.

Probably wishful thinking but it would be good for the collectors if a list would be published with all vin numbers they have sold or have been involved with over the years; not that are all cars are suspicious but at least one would be aware to double or triple check the legacy of cars they have or have been offered.

Richard

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Originally Posted by preS

Probably wishful thinking but it would be good for the collectors if a list would be published with all vin numbers they have sold or have been involved with over the years; not that are all cars are suspicious but at least one would be aware to double or triple check the legacy of cars they have or have been offered.

Richard

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I and many others, I guess, are collecting info on chassis number of some models ... the ESR roster also include many of them, but the task is huge since there are so many cars around to keep track of. Moreover, many dealers treat these info as "commercial in confidence". In that case, there is apparently a well oiled criminal mechanism ... we are well beyond the work of a chopshop ...

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Originally Posted by Biancaneve

I and many others, I guess, are collecting info on chassis number of some models ... the ESR roster also include many of them, but the task is huge since there are so many cars around to keep track of. Moreover, many dealers treat these info as "commercial in confidence". In that case, there is apparently a well oiled criminal mechanism ... we are well beyond the work of a chopshop ...

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. According to the previous investigations, an employee of the Düren Road Traffic Office is said to have registered the cars and thus encouraged the fraud. Separate proceedings are ongoing against him.

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The cars this guy was involved with should be easy to track?

Richard

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Originally Posted by preS

The cars this guy was involved with should be easy to track?

Richard

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Indeed, but this is just the iceberg tip ...

The trial in Aachen has started against three persons.
Google Translation from the German newspaper BILD:
"It is about millions of fraud with expensive classic cars.
Three men are said to have made big money with it. Uwe N. (50) a sports car restorer from Aachen, the Düsseldorf beauty doctor Dr. Afschin Fatemi (47) and the ex-Porsche employee and racing driver Jürgen B. (74). The trio has been tried in front of the Aachen regional court since Tuesday. According to the indictment of the Aachen public prosecutor's office, the gang is said to have rebuilt race cars from the 1960s that were ready for scrap or made replicas. Chassis numbers and vehicle letters are said to have been forged. An employee of the Düren road traffic authority is said to have registered the vehicles and thus encouraged the fraud. Separate proceedings are pending against him. A million scam!
On the first day of the trial, only the indictment was read out - the public prosecutor's office is assuming 21 cases. In six cases, fake classic cars are said to have been sold as real. All three have so far been silent on the allegations. The lawyers of the main defendant Uwe N. applied for an interruption of the main hearing so that their client can be examined. Goran Bronisch: “My client may not be able to negotiate due to a long-term illness. This should now be checked. "
The trial is scheduled to continue on November 18th." source: https://www.bild.de/regional/koeln/k...5936.bild.html

Sad way to end a career for Barth.

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Originally Posted by RSTarga

Sad way to end a career for Barth.

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I will keep the benefit of the doubt until the end of the trial ... I hope for him and for all the other Porsche addicted that he will come out clean (although ... :confused:)

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Originally Posted by Biancaneve

I will keep the benefit of the doubt until the end of the trial ... I hope for him and for all the other Porsche addicted that he will come out clean (although ... :confused:)

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in the end everybody's gonna pay---hopefully.

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Originally Posted by moito

in the end everybody's gonna pay---hopefully.

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Well, we all expect that justice will be served, of course I don't believe so much in it any longer ...

as we know…this is only the „german chapter“… there are contacts further in other countries …;)
with different chapters…;)
where there is light, there is shadow….

Something more came in December ... see here (registration to Bild is needed ... maybe some of our german friends can help ... )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhegra

The trial in Aachen has started against three persons.
Google Translation from the German newspaper BILD:
"It is about millions of fraud with expensive classic cars.
Three men are said to have made big money with it. Uwe N. (50) a sports car restorer from Aachen, the Düsseldorf beauty doctor Dr. Afschin Fatemi (47) and the ex-Porsche employee and racing driver Jürgen B. (74). The trio has been tried in front of the Aachen regional court since Tuesday. According to the indictment of the Aachen public prosecutor's office, the gang is said to have rebuilt race cars from the 1960s that were ready for scrap or made replicas. Chassis numbers and vehicle letters are said to have been forged. An employee of the Düren road traffic authority is said to have registered the vehicles and thus encouraged the fraud. Separate proceedings are pending against him. A million scam!
On the first day of the trial, only the indictment was read out - the public prosecutor's office is assuming 21 cases. In six cases, fake classic cars are said to have been sold as real. All three have so far been silent on the allegations. The lawyers of the main defendant Uwe N. applied for an interruption of the main hearing so that their client can be examined. Goran Bronisch: “My client may not be able to negotiate due to a long-term illness. This should now be checked. "
The trial is scheduled to continue on November 18th." source: https://www.bild.de/regional/koeln/k...5936.bild.html

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What is the latest on these things that were reported in the press in 2021 ?

The lawsuit at the Aachen court will be continued or restarted end of February.

Thanks for update it’ll be interesting to see how the case pans out

Translated from the Aachener Newspaper:
The process of counterfeit classic cars is accelerating
The court is dealing with sinfully expensive vintage cars that are said to have been counterfeit. The process started in 2021, but was canceled. Now we're stepping on the gas again.
Those involved are back on the starting grid. And this more than two years after the first attempt. At that time, the event was canceled after just one lap had been completed amid great spectator and media interest. Now – symbolically speaking – Matthias Quarch will once again give the signal to start. Because he is the chairman of the 1st Large Commercial Criminal Chamber of the Aachen Regional Court. And that's exactly where a case is being heard that made headlines nationwide - and even far beyond. It's about the alleged counterfeiting of fast cars, very fast cars, the fastest cars of all time. And the million-dollar business with it. At the end of 2021, this process came to an abrupt end before it had really begun. The reason for this was that the main defendant, a 53-year-old from Aachen, was classified as unfit to stand trial due to illness. The public prosecutor's long indictment had already been read out, which ultimately involved more than 20 allegedly counterfeit classic cars, including legends of the racetrack. The accusation is, among other things, fraud, but the three defendants are also said to be guilty of other crimes. In addition to the 53-year-old, a 76-year-old, who is considered the expert on Porsche racing vehicles, and a 52-year-old doctor from Düsseldorf are also charged.
Specifically: The 53-year-old ran a special company for classic cars, especially those from Porsche, in Aachen. For well-heeled customers who like to adorn themselves with automotive treasures, he is said to have recreated extremely rare vehicles and then brought them to the man as supposed originals. Partly for purchase sums in the million range. In order to document the authenticity, corresponding vehicle documents and identifiers in and on the vehicles are said to have been falsified. The 76-year-old is said to have contributed to vehicle identification numbers with his expertise - he once won the 24 Hours of Le Mans himself - for example. And the doctor from Düsseldorf is said to have knowingly acquired such a fake and then resold it as the original via the Aachener.
After elaborate investigations, there had been several house searches at the time, several vehicles were collected. Originally, even more than 150 cases were investigated, but many of them were then not prosecuted for various reasons. But the list of the 22 cases in court is also "prominent." On it, for example, is a Porsche 917, the fastest racing car ever built, which triumphed several times in Le Mans, among other things. The one with the number 032 should change hands. Frame, engine and transmission should cost three million euros. A letter from the early 1970s allegedly confirmed the authenticity of the parts. However: The 032 never rolled over a racetrack, but was scrapped on a test bench after an endurance test. According to the public prosecutor's office, the letter had been created on a type of paper that was only launched in the 1980s.
In another case, a supposedly real, but fake Porsche 904 from the 1960s is said to have changed hands for over a million euros. However, an employee of the Düren Road Traffic Office, who was accused in another procedure, is said to have helped with the registration of the vehicles. Curious is the case of a racing Porsche 911, in which the counterfeiters apparently made a mistake. The original with the corresponding serial number was later found in a garage. According to the public prosecutor's office, the customers bruised were, for example, a racing driver from France and an entrepreneur from Liège, who owns an entire classic car fleet. Some of these well-to-well collectors are supposed to testify as witnesses in the trial.

The defense of the main defendant said on the sidelines of the start of the trial at the time that it could be proven that the rich customers knowingly bought counterfeits as supposed originals. They would have wanted to use these rare vehicles as "sagn objects". In this respect, this would not be a fraud, since de facto no one would have been harmed, rather one was deliberately pulled over the table. At the time, the defense of the doctor from Düsseldorf still handed over a press release in the courtroom with the content that her client - a highly respected surgeon with a lot of clientele also from the circle of the rich and beautiful - was completely innocent.

The throttle will now be given again in the trial of this extraordinary and sensational case from Wednesday, 21. February, from 2 p.m. According to the previous plans, the verdict should be pronounced after seven days of trial on the 22nd. March fall.

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Originally Posted by rhegra

Translated from the Aachener Newspaper:
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https://www.aachener-zeitung.de/loka...n/8182359.html

https://www.bild.de/regional/nordrhe...3916.bild.html

The Bild article from February 13 2024:

Porsche: Plastic surgeon accused of vintage car forger

Aachen/Düsseldorf (NRW) – It's about a few million euros, outrageously expensive historic racing cars and gang-like fraud in the finest circles. Among those charged is a prominent Düsseldorf cosmetic surgeon.

The case has preoccupied the judiciary for almost six years. A first trial began in 2022, but had to be canceled because the main defendant was not fit to stand trial. Now there will be a new attempt on Wednesday next week (February 21st).

The sports car restorer Uwe N. (53) from Aachen (NRW) is accused of, among other things, fraud and forgery of documents. He is said to have recreated and sold historic racing cars, such as those from the 1960s, and presented fake documents. Co-defendants are the ex-Porsche employee and racing driver Jürgen B. (76) - and the Düsseldorf beauty doc Dr. Afshin Fatemi (49)

Million dollar loan thanks to James Dean Porsche

It should, among other things, provided a presumably unfinished replica of a Porsche 550 Spyder (James Dean Porsche) from the 1950s as 2.9 million as security for a 3.4 million loan at a bank. This is also why the loan was approved at the time. Dr. Fatemi already denied all allegations back then: “I have not committed any forgery of documents, and the accusation of fraud is also completely baseless and groundless.”

The public prosecutor's office was apparently not convinced. According to the prosecution, the three men are said to have sold replicas of historic Porsche racing cars as real classics. Other customers are said to have known that they were counterfeits. A total of 21 cases are listed. The accused ex-Porsche employee, who had access to the car manufacturer's archive, is said to have provided information about cars that are no longer in use in order to then transfer their data to the replicas.

The case was discovered after a tip-off about events at the Düren Road Traffic Office. A certain employee there is always said to have registered the counterfeit sports cars. In the new trial before the Aachen regional court, buyers of the supposedly genuine classic cars should also be heard as witnesses.

This reminds me of an old Mexican joke, based after a rumor that Pancho Villa's head had gone missing after his death.
A morbid collector buys what he believes is Pancho's skull from a black marketeer.
A few weeks later he finds that the marketeer is again selling a skull, but much smaller.
He confronts the marketeer and the marketeer responds "this skull is from when Pancho was a child"

kinda like the short block i bought
pistons, cylinders, cam, all new
when i checked it out, the cam was worn out and motor had about 85 pounds compression
the explanation amounted to ..."new to you"

so how did it go today , Could see kukuk laura was there but she did not say anything about the courtcase

M

She just made a post on Instagram but doesn't mention anything specific ...

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Originally Posted by StephenAcworth

She just made a post on Instagram but doesn't mention anything specific ...

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This is what she answered to me: "... this is the pick-up of the start in 2021 ... no decision yet ... more appointments coming up ... "

Today the trial was restarted in Aachen, with Porsche (due to the infringement of trademark rights by the "replicas") as a co-plaintiff, as the Aachener Newspaper writes. The new edition of the trial began the same way the first one ended: with an hour-long reading of the long indictment, which lists 22 cases. The list of crimes is long, from serious fraud to forgery of documents and even violation of trademark law. In addition to the 53-year-old from Aachen, a 52-year-old doctor from Düsseldorf and a 76-year-old Porsche racing car expert are also charged. Among other things, the doctor is said to have had a 911 counterfeited, which, according to the prosecution, he later wanted to sell for a profit as the original. The Porsche expert, also an author and former Le Mans winner, is said to have obtained data for the forgeries. For the latter, his defense attorney immediately launched into a brilliant counter-speech. The indictment is a “compilation of allegations and conjectures.” The investigators did poor research - and the bottom line is that his client's excellent reputation has already been damaged. According to the Aachener Zeitung, the question of when a classic car is actually “counterfeit” will ultimately be exciting. What percentage would have to be original? What percentage are likely to be original replacement parts? This topic was also touched on at the start, and the lawyers argued that there were no historic racing cars that were 100 percent original. The trial, which only takes place half a day because of the main defendant's still poor health, will continue on Thursday. Among other things, with an expert on the same health issue.
More to follow...

I didn’t know until reading this that Porsche is listed as a plaintiff but assuming what is posted is factually correct and an accurate translation it is interesting one of the accused (while not named) is clearly a high profile ex-employee racer and author so reasonable to assume Porsche taking a position as a plaintiff with him being among the people facing the allegation / charges wasn’t a decision AG leadership and its lawyers made lightly even though they would need to act to defend copyright ?

Steve

Just curious. Is this a criminal trial? If so, in what way would Porsche be a co-plaintiff? Thanks

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Originally Posted by one-two

Just curious. Is this a criminal trial? If so, in way way would Porsche be a co-plaintiff? Thanks

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hmm yes a 100 million euro criminal fraud case making and selling fake historic race cars

no one have been ,how you call it , caught yet by the judge , sorry for my english , the older guy is a well know porsche ambassador who had acces to historic files

but as said nothing yet

Interesting.....maybe that's why so many race cars have been appearing for sale in the last few years.
They seem to coming thru the same channels. Be careful out there....

… in fairness to the accused the principle of innocent until proven / judged guilty applies however it will be interesting to see where and to whom the tentacles of the deals on the twenty-two indictments reach as prosecution evidence is presented.

What is the status of the cars that prosecutors have chosen to use in bringing the specific allegations to trial ?

Trial is one to watch as I suppose it’s a small niche market and network for cars of the specialised type alleged to be at centre of these proceedings — are there further revelations, (twists and turns), to come during the trial and at its eventual conclusion?

It becomes most interesting IF the slow legal proceedings ever get to a conclusion and IF by end of the legal processes any guilt is ever proven.

Steve

Today it was continued. According to a current report in the Aachener Zeitung, the presiding judge had already tried on the second day of the trial today to explore whether the extensive proceedings, for which eight trial days are initially scheduled, could be shortened - which would not only be good for the main defendant due to illness. An expert reported that the man suffered from epilepsy. He suffered his first seizure when he was ten or twelve years old. From then on, he experienced these “unpredictable seizures” about every five years, after which he usually woke up injured in the hospital and couldn’t remember anything. Stress and lack of sleep in particular triggered the cramps. And right now, at the start of the trial, an “increased stressful situation” must be expected.
Such “deals” are nothing unusual, especially in large economic processes, reports the AZ; it is not uncommon for a deal to result according to the motto: If you confess this, it can be stopped. And everything will happen faster and therefore cheaper for the taxpayer.
However, it is doubtful whether this will work in this procedure. 19 lawyers are involved, Porsche is acting as a co-plaintiff, there are many conflicting interests, according to the AZ. Judge Quarch encourages “bilateral discussions” and offers himself as a mediator; he is also a certified mediator.
First, however, the defendants had their say. The doctor from Düsseldorf has already commented on the person and the main defendant also wants to comment on the allegations next week. (translation by Google)
Porsche is involved because there could be a criminal misuse of their trade mark selling „faked“ cars as real Porsche. In Germany there are some special laws concerning the violation of a trade mark or even protected copyright. There is another big story about a well known Mercedes restoration facility, now bankrupt, concerning faked 300 SL Gullwing and roadster.

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Originally Posted by rhegra

There is another big story about a well known Mercedes restoration facility, now bankrupt, concerning faked 300 SL Gullwing and roadster.

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I think Mercedes bought this company and it is using it as the basis for their Mercedes Heritage business.

https://mercedesblog.com/the-insolve...mercedes-benz/

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Originally Posted by StephenAcworth

I think Mercedes bought this company and it is using it as the basis for their Mercedes Heritage business.

https://mercedesblog.com/the-insolve...mercedes-benz/

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Mercedes-Benz takes over parts of the bankrupt company Kienle Automobiltechnik in Heimerdingen. They will be the 1st February integrated into the Mercedes-Benz Classic Center. Mercedes-Benz Heritage GmbH therefore also takes care of specialists and thus ensures valuable expertise for the future, says Mercedes-Benz. The exact scope of the takeover is unclear.

https://bnn.de/nachrichten/wirtschaf...tomobiltechnik

Mercedes-Benz Heritage GmbH takes over with effect from 1. February 2024 components at the former Kienle Automobiltechnik GmbH in Heimerdingen and incorporates them into the Classic Center of the brand. You not only take over a spare parts stock, specialized work equipment, but also personnel.
As has already been speculated in the media, Mercedes-Benz has now officially confirmed a partial takeover of Kienle Automobiltechnik GmbH. In a press release, one speaks of "comparts of the former Kienle Automobiltechnik GmbH" with the takeover of "qualified specialists" without going into detail. In addition, the spare parts stock as well as specialized work equipment for complex work on classics of the Mercedes-Benz brand will be taken over. How many employees you effectively take over, nor which parts are taken over exactly, are not communicated. As far as we are informed, former shareholders, close family members and ten other employees were not taken over.

Growth strategy of Mercedes-Benz Classic

"As Mercedes-Benz Heritage GmbH, we are responsible for preserving the heritage of this unique brand and carrying it into the future. With the acquisition, we secure valuable spare parts and ensure their best possible availability. In addition, we attract further specialists who have acquired knowledge and experience in this highly specialized area over the years and will actively support us in the implementation of our growth strategy. My entire team and I warmly welcome our new colleagues." - says Marcus Breitschwerdt, Head of Mercedes-Benz Heritage GmbH.

https://mbpassion.de/2024/01/mercede...omobiltechnik/

Hi Haul

that is funny reading that they take over, I tell you a funny story how Kienle started, i was told once
He Klaus Kienle was a employ at mercedes in the 60´s -70´s
one day he saw that they trow out all the special hydraulic tools for the MB 600 Limo to the scrap yard
he ask if he could have it , and took it ,
not many months later a Dictator from africa or so called Mercedes that his Mercedes 600 had collaps they had air hydralic suspension
made on the tools Klaus now had ,
so mercedes was in deep shit , until klaus step in and said I can fix it for €€€€€ big bucks
then a few months later the next 600 and the next and thats how he growed
and Mercedes had to pay him due to these "presidents" where big clients of mercedes
the same with the Karman factory and all the 911 sheet metal tools , all send to the scrap yard

and due to there Kienle , bankrupcy , I dont think it was this only 1 300 SL they faked wins on must be more to it than this

Marek

I posted this story a few weeks ago but it drew no comment.

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...ng-development

What was conclusion of the investigation mentioned in both articles in the links? Was anyone proven guilty of any wrongdoing?

Surely Mercedes and their lawyers cognisant of their almost unique history and heritage back to the dawn of the automobile wouldn’t go near any deal involving a company / brand that had wrongdoing or even the merest suggestion of any wrongdoing?

This cartoon by John Atkinson might be something German OEMs might want to put on their pinboards:
Attachment 612828

Particularly with the ongoing Aachen legal case bringing more worldwide attention to German classic car market’s integrity and the Aachen legal proceedings even involving another OEM as co-plaintiff and one of its high-profile ex-employees as a defendant.

Steve

soorry had not seen your post…the mercedes story had been debated quite extensivly
in the german speaking region, as the verdict of fraud is an ongoing story since years…
last year the case of an announced lawsuit came up and - double existance of a car ->complete fraud with all papers, vins etc - the original car had been unknown at a suisse farmer since years - in the shadow of this, more people
raised their voices….
all this collapsed, even before it began - deliberate escape into bancruptcy/insolvence …..
case closed -
no more money available..
no one to sue ! company no more existing …

I try to find some of the excellent reports
done here in the german speaking region
- google page translate will sure help then..

concerning Aachen -
it is a generell problem of the vintage scene -
dealers in Suisse, Italy, NL, France, Belgium, UK, US and else..

No problem understandably the story gets more traction in context of a thread with other allegations and a live legal case that has another German OEM involved.

Seem to recall there were allegations about an official in the regional vehicle office ? If so how did that turn out ? Was it alleged that aspect was somehow related to this current Aachen case or was it a completely separate matter?

Steve

The allegations that revolve around the papers and approvals are admitted in the Aachen case. These were made with the knowledge of the defendant, even though he was not there himself. Two other defendants have to answer in other proceedings because of the counterfeits that were allegedly manufactured in exchange for appropriate compensation in the Düren road traffic office.

So are they concentrating on counterfeiting the paperwork associated with the cars rather than the cars themselves? or is this only in connection to the TUV official?
A bit like going after Al Capone on tax charges

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Originally Posted by rhegra

The allegations that revolve around the papers and approvals are admitted in the Aachen case. These were made with the knowledge of the defendant, even though he was not there himself. Two other defendants have to answer in other proceedings because of the counterfeits that were allegedly manufactured in exchange for appropriate compensation in the Düren road traffic office.

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I’m not clear from this if and how any alleged links between these things will affect the other ? While all are innocent until proven guilty might the result in the “other proceedings” impact in the three defendants in the ongoing Aachen case ?

yes, please, always provide a link to the newspaper the infos are in…
proper research based understandable quotation…

thank you

the full text of an article from the Aachener Zeitung published yesterday: (translation by Google)
The many lives of a legendary racing car
The legendary Porsche 917-043, nicknamed “Hippie”, was destroyed in an accident. Nevertheless, it still exists. Multiple. Apparently all originals. This is one of the strange stories from the Aachen classic car trial.
It's November 13, 1970. A Friday, of all days. Jo Siffert races around the Hockenheimring in a Porsche 917. Test drive. But it ends in a serious accident for the Swiss racing driver.
Fastest car of all time
The car is in ruins on the track. The vehicle with chassis number 043 ceases to exist. Siffert survives this accident and takes a body part from the scene with him, as a souvenir. He writes the date on it and signs it. After all, it wasn't just any racing car. And not just any old 917, which is still considered the fastest car of all time.
Rather, it was the one with the nickname “Hippie”, which was given to it because of its rather hippie-like paint job. And the one who took second place in the 24-hour classic in Le Mans a few months earlier - with Willy Kauhsen from Aachen and his partner Gérard Larrousse at the wheel.
54 years later, this legend of the asphalt is once again the focus. This time not on the racetrack, but in the courtroom. The curious story of this Porsche 917-043 is part of the trial surrounding the alleged forgery of such racing legends. And the million-dollar business with it.
It's about millions.
The story will be told this morning by Goran Bronisch. He is not a racing driver, but a lawyer who represents the main defendant in this case before the 1st Large Commercial Criminal Chamber headed by judge Matthias Quarch.
The defendant, a 53-year-old Aachen expert for racing vehicles in general and Porsche cars in particular, is said to have recreated a number of vehicles and then sold them for a profit as originals.
It's about many millions of euros. At least that's what the public prosecutor's office sees in its indictment in almost two dozen cases. It also involves forging the relevant vehicle documents and registrations. The story of 917-043 is one of these cases. The last one that Bronisch recapitulates that day. He does this on behalf of his client. It takes hours to go through the accused cases. It is a “Who’s Who” of the most famous racing cars. Porsche 911 R and RS and RSR, Porsche 908, Porsche 917, Ford GT 40 and so on.
Back in 1970. The “hippie” pile of metal is dismantled after the accident, that’s how Bronisch continues the story. Porsche then installed some parts in other racing cars. The rest is scrapped.
Scrap is resold. But that doesn't mean, as the defense attorney explains, that they end up in a scrap press. Rather, they are resold. And so enter the “restoration cycle”. And so begins what is now astonishing in court. There is the 917-043 again. Not just once, not just twice. “I alone know of three 917-043s, all of which claim to be the original,” says Bronisch. According to the motto: Someone had a few original parts and made a supposed “original” out of them and other parts.
The situation is similar in the Aachen case. The defendant is said to have owned some of the “scrap” from back then. A few years ago, according to the defendant, Didier C., an entrepreneur from Switzerland and a racing driver himself, approached the man from Aachen. And suggests resurrecting the Porsche 917-043. In order to sell it later for a profit.
You start the project. At the end there is actually a “hippie” in the garage in an industrial area in Aachen. The new construction cost 2.5 million euros, more than expected. But the defendant soon has a buyer on hand who wants to pay around five million euros. Although, according to lawyer Bronisch, he knew that it was not the original, but a replica. The Aachen resident thinks the price is okay; after all, it's a profit of over 100 percent. But that's not enough for Didier C., he wanted at least ten million euros.
So they try to go through the agent Claudio R. But he is startled when he hears what car it is. Because he is currently in the process of presenting, together with the Brazilian oil baron P., another “original” 917-043 to the interested world public as a sensational find that eked out an existence in a barn.
Of course, it wouldn’t be so good if another “original” came onto the market right now. As the story progresses, it goes back and forth. First, a person from Monaco comes into play who wants to pay five million euros, also in the knowledge that the vehicle from Aachen has never competed in a race.
An oil baron is also involved
They even want to change the paint and the chassis number. Then the oil baron enters the stage again, who also owns other ultra-valuable racing cars such as a Porsche 911R from the 1960s, which is valued at around five or six million euros. There should be an exchange of the 911 and another 917 for the “Aachen Hippie”. This deal also doesn't go through.
For the Aachen car manufacturer, the story, which he says he no longer notices, ends at this point. In the meantime there have been extensive investigations and house searches.
The 53-year-old is arrested and taken into custody, where he spends four months. In a city in a racing cockpit, he is now locked in his cell for 23 hours a day, with an hour of walking in the yard, as he said on the day before the trial. When he testifies about himself and his CV, he doesn't mention this time.
Judge Susanne Sommer specifically asks about it, the defendant seems surprised. These months were “traumatic,” he says, and reports of a suicide in his neighboring cell and of another inmate who died of a heart attack. As an epilepsy sufferer, he asked himself what would happen if he had a seizure in his cell at night.
“It was a very difficult time that I haven't come to terms with yet,” he says, who also includes a Porsche expert and former Le Mans winner on various charges, as well as a doctor from Düsseldorf.
The next day it is his lawyer's turn to respond to the public prosecutor's allegations. The conclusion of these explanations is usually something like the story about the legendary “hippie”. Namely, that the buyers or clients were aware of the fact that the vehicles were not the originals.
A letter to the judge
One of them even sent Judge Matthias Quarch a long letter in which he emphasized that he never felt cheated by the defendant. He is expected to testify on Wednesday. However, the allegations that revolve around the papers and approvals are admitted. These were made with the knowledge of the defendant, even though he was not there himself. Two other defendants have to answer in other proceedings because of the counterfeits that were allegedly manufactured in exchange for appropriate compensation in the Düren road traffic office.
And back to the history of the “hippie”. One of these was shown as an original at a trade fair in 2020. The Aachen defendant thinks it could well be the one he built. Which would make it not an original. And there is still a 917-043 with the suffix “P” on the race tracks.
He was piloted by people we have already met in this story. For example, in the summer of 2023 at the site of his greatest successes at the “Le Mans Classics”. At the wheel: the broker R. and the oil baron P.. And Gérard Larrousse, now 83 years old. At least it's an original.

Thanks. Sheds a bit more light on the types of Porsches involved in the allegations.

“However, the allegations that revolve around the papers and approvals are admitted” the phrasing is rather vague and ambiguous, (possibly in part due to the google translation to English).

Steve

Steve
I think in that context it is the documents and evidence from another trial (maybe regarding the counterfeiting of the documents and the events at the TUV office) that has been "admitted as evidence" in this trial

Indeed … that’s why I said vague and ambiguous in the translation due to “admitted” having several meanings in English. I’ve modified my post as think your view is more likely — although still not totally clear.

Including link to or pasting of the German original along with pasting the google translation can help as native or fluent German speakers might see the nuance that google translate doesn't. Or perhaps different tools run against original might give different output.

I haven’t found a way to access the German original reporting from a web search so I appreciate what is getting posted here to keep us updated. With Porsche OEM being involved as co-plaintiff it’s potentially a big story but curiously not seen it being reported currently in international media? Perhaps I’m just using wrong search terms or missing it?

Steve

Steve, here is a link to the original article but it is behind a paywall:

https://www.aachener-zeitung.de/loka...s/8915347.html

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Originally Posted by 911MRP

Indeed … that’s why I said vague and ambiguous in the translation due to “admitted” having several meanings in English. I’ve modified my post as think your view is more likely — although still not totally clear.

Including link to or pasting of the German original along with pasting the google translation can help as native or fluent German speakers might see the nuance that google translate doesn't. Or perhaps different tools run against original might give different output.

I haven’t found a way to access the German original reporting from a web search so I appreciate what is getting posted here to keep us updated. With Porsche OEM being involved as co-plaintiff it’s potentially a big story but curiously not seen it being reported currently in international media? Perhaps I’m just using wrong search terms or missing it?

Steve

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The Aachen trial is "only" about faked race cars. Here some old info about the main defendant https://www.johnnytipler.co.uk/singl.../scudderia-m66 . Both the other defendants in this case are accused for for processes related to this. There are numerous rumors about the role of the former Porsche employee, who is said to have used, among other things, old company letter paper, parts of the race car archive and even old typewriters in connection with incorrect reports on the counterfeit vehicles. The presumption of innocence always applies until proven otherwise of course.
Uwe N., the main defendant in the Aachen case, admitted that forged documents were used for some vehicles from his production, which were produced by two employees of a registration authority who were not charged in Aachen. These two people are accused in another case to follow.

Thanks again. I’ve read the Tippler article or similar before, in a magazine perhaps as I seem to recall pictures of the building were impressive ?

The last part is interesting regarding “admitted”

Steve

BaT currently has a 73rs on auction. One of the documents in their support of this car is a letter from J. Barth on Porsche letterhead. The automobile had a history in Brazil I believe. Should buyers be concerned?

Every potential buyer of an RS 2.7 should be concerned with the authenticity. A letter from J. Barth doesn't change this, in a way or another.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-rs-touring-3/
do not see any Brazilian history.....

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Originally Posted by haul

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-rs-touring-3/
do not see any Brazilian history.....

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It seems to be the former car of Jean-Claude Bonhomme who is (was?) the president of the Porsche Club RS de France.

https://porscheclubrsdefrance.com/ca...=view&page_n=2

Innocent until proven guilty

There was a short video on this particular RS on Road Scholars Instagram but I can't seem to find it now ...

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Originally Posted by StephenAcworth

There was a short video on this particular RS on Road Scholars Instagram but I can't seem to find it now ...

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https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-rs-touring-3/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 928cs

Every potential buyer of an RS 2.7 should be concerned with the authenticity. A letter from J. Barth doesn't change this, in a way or another.

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It would be ideal if a restoration from this era of car documented the production number under the actual dashboard which is written in Crayon. However by now, I'm sure the purveyors of such have learned to fake these too. Entirely too easy.

This is how an acquaintance (who owned 9113600508) found a re-bodied RS in France in the 80's. A call to a contact at the factory advised him the chassis number he was looking at did not match this number. Oops! That shop was using the parts from a wrecked car to recreate "the" car.

How many re-bodied cars are out here? FWIW, the factory actually re-bodied an RS into RSR spec back in the 80's which was sold to a Japanese customer in 1988. It's the only one I have a serial number for but to say there were more is a distinct prospect.

And as far as re-stamped engine pads go, there is a gentleman (who is a concours and authenticity expert) who found one in his customer's RS so they DO exist.
As long as big money is on the line be very leery of claims unless they can be absolutely verified. Forensic analysis on stampings or perfect provenance. Unrestored cars are unicorns.
Not being the guy who's seen a lot of these I'll vouch for two seen in person which were original including a 471 car. Don Ahearn bought the other one.
The 471 was photographed extensively.

In closing here's a line from a Sports Car Market article on a Big Block Corvette:

The joke among Corvette enthusiasts is that there are now at least twice the number of “original, numbers-matching” 435-horsepower C2s out there than were originally built.::rolleyes:

https://www.sportscarmarket.com/prof...35-convertible

Thanks Franz!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moito

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-rs-touring-3/

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by sithot

It would be ideal if a restoration from this era of car documented the production number under the actual dashboard which is written in Crayon. However by now, I'm sure the purveyors of such have learned to fake these too. Entirely too easy.

This is how an acquaintance (who owned 9113600508) found a re-bodied RS in France in the 80's. A call to a contact at the factory advised him the chassis number he was looking at did not match this number. Oops! That shop was using the parts from a wrecked car to recreate "the" car.

How many re-bodied cars are out here? FWIW, the factory actually re-bodied an RS into RSR spec back in the 80's which was sold to a Japanese customer in 1988. It's the only one I have a serial number for but to say there were more is a distinct prospect.

And as far as re-stamped engine pads go, there is a gentleman (who is a concours and authenticity expert) who found one in his customer's RS so they DO exist.
As long as big money is on the line be very leery of claims unless they can be absolutely verified. Forensic analysis on stampings or perfect provenance. Unrestored cars are unicorns.
Not being the guy who's seen a lot of these I'll vouch for two seen in person which were original including a 471 car. Don Ahearn bought the other one.
The 471 was photographed extensively.

In closing here's a line from a Sports Car Market article on a Big Block Corvette:

The joke among Corvette enthusiasts is that there are now at least twice the number of “original, numbers-matching” 435-horsepower C2s out there than were originally built.::rolleyes:

https://www.sportscarmarket.com/prof...35-convertible

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Many cars were rebodied when new or nearly new, and someone "forgot" to destroy the original body.

This is how a friend of mine now owns two cars with the same VIN, the rebodied in excellent condition and the original body, which was stored and modified for racing, but never finished. It's a M472 RS 2.7 and quite disturbing to see the two cars side by side.
Funny, isn't it?

Perhaps not as disturbing as if another party owned the other one!

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Originally Posted by 911MRP

Perhaps not as disturbing as if another party owned the other one!

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This is the main reason why he bought the original body, when he discovered that it still exists.

I suppose if he had the wherewithal as cheaper and more certain than legal action if it ever came to that ?

There is a 914/6 I know of, crashed, new body installed, then all new drive train & interior from another crashed car; so almost everything replaced except for the registration plate. Crashed body resurrected as a 914/4 kit car. crazy situation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 928cs

Many cars were rebodied when new or nearly new, and someone "forgot" to destroy the original body.

This is how a friend of mine now owns two cars with the same VIN, the rebodied in excellent condition and the original body, which was stored and modified for racing, but never finished. It's a M472 RS 2.7 and quite disturbing to see the two cars side by side.
Funny, isn't it?

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I call those Spartacus cars. There was a Carrera Speedster a few years back and not the one you're probably thinking of, where one guy claimed to have the car and was building it. Turns out he had the doors, another guy had the front clip, and a third guy had the rear clip and the gearbox. Who had "the car"?

---Adam

good question Adam
My view (but maybe not a shared one) is NO ONE had it unless (1) the "front clip" extended back beyond the dash panels, and contained the numbers, which may have given that person the advantage OR (2) one person collected all of those parts together from the other owners in which case they may have an arguable case (especially if those parts contained the vin numbers)

this all comes back to the vital 2 questions -
who has the original chassis plate and
what is it attatched to ?

cheers
Dennis :)

last le mans classic two 906 attended the event...both carrying the same VIN...
neither looked legit to me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gulf908

this all comes back to the vital 2 questions -
who has the original chassis plate and
what is it attatched to ?

cheers
Dennis :)

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this reminds me of the words of Mr. Marinello on VIN tags:

Marco Marinello wrote in January 2011 In the Octane magazine:
“But one important fact is not mentioned: after 904-025 was crashed and returned to the factory, all mechanical components were removed and installed in another 904 that was still under construction. This car was chassis number - or, more precisely, production number - 088. The stamped steel chassis number plate and the manufacturer ID plate were removed from 025 and reinstalled onto production number 088. Production number 088 thus became 904-025 and 'lived happily ever after', SO to speak. So what is the status today of the crashed 025 ? Well, it is a factory built 904, no question, but in my opinion it lost its legitimate status as 025, when the factory removed the welded-in chassis plate and the riveted-on ID tag. The car became a nameless orphan.”

https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...t=borneo+green

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Originally Posted by 911MRP

I suppose if he had the wherewithal as cheaper and more certain than legal action if it ever came to that ?

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Exactly.
The original body will be restored and the owner will decide what to do then. He will have two cars but only one set of papers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I call those Spartacus cars. There was a Carrera Speedster a few years back and not the one you're probably thinking of, where one guy claimed to have the car and was building it. Turns out he had the doors, another guy had the front clip, and a third guy had the rear clip and the gearbox. Who had "the car"?

---Adam

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Did any of them had a title of property and is there a proper stamp with the VIN on such a nice car?
It wasn't so nice at this stage, I suppose.

Meanwhile ...

Attachment 613715

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I call those Spartacus cars. There was a Carrera Speedster a few years back and not the one you're probably thinking of, where one guy claimed to have the car and was building it. Turns out he had the doors, another guy had the front clip, and a third guy had the rear clip and the gearbox. Who had "the car"?

---Adam

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84932 are two cars. Bruce Anderson's brother, Clark had photos of the accident. Cut in two. A "West Coast Operation" :rolleyes: got part of the car and rebuilt it. It was never supposed to be resurrected but we all know money is the driver.

Any update on the Aachen case from those who can see the press reports or who are local ?

DOesn't seem to be anything since the last newspaper report:

https://www.aachener-zeitung.de/auto...liver-schmetz/

No verdict has been reached in the trial yet, and that will probably take a while. The proceedings will continue after the Easter break on April 15th, with further trial days scheduled until the beginning of June. It may be clarified on April 15th whether individual charges can be dropped for individual defendants and which witnesses are still needed. At the moment it is all still very unclear.

Translation by Google: The Aachener Zeitung reports today: The presiding judge Matthias Quarch wished the two gentlemen in his always friendly way: “Have a good trip home!” Because for these two of the three defendants in the spectacular case involving sinfully expensive, extremely rare and here presumably counterfeit racing cars Oldtimer, this process at the Aachen regional court is over once and for all. The Commercial Criminal Chamber has dropped the proceedings against them - one a Porsche racing legend and Le Mans winner, the other a respected doctor from Düsseldorf.
No solid evidence has been provided in the trial days so far that they could have been involved in fraudulent transactions involving millions in classic cars and forged documents for them. And so Chief Public Prosecutor Jan Balthasar also agreed that the proceedings against the two would not be continued. Albeit with a gnashing of teeth, as he stated on record. Because the prosecutor at least wished that they should have dug a little deeper into their pockets for this setting.
There was still some haggling in the courtroom about what kind of fine the defendants should be given, as there was at least suspicion of criminal offenses in a few small points. Behind the scenes, they had already agreed on monetary conditions of 30,000 euros for the doctor and 3,000 euros for the Porsche expert. But after a brief consultation with the chamber, Judge Quarch made it clear that he would stop the proceedings even without any payment, which the public prosecutor's office did not agree to. And so in the end a rather symbolic 7,500 or 750 euros came out for charity. What the defendants, for their part, also accepted with a gnashing of teeth. It can be assumed that at the end of the trial, which lasted until June, there would have been acquittals. But neither of them had any desire to continue to answer in court.
That left the main defendant, who is said to have built the fake vintage cars in his workshop at the time. But also with regard to his person - in the event of a conviction - a very mild sentence is possible or likely. In a conversation, the chamber, the public prosecutor's office and the defendant's side wanted to agree on what it could lead to. There is already talk of removing some of the approximately two dozen cases from the indictment.
In view of this development, one must once again consider the dimensions of this case. After enormously complex investigations that reached international levels, there were no fewer than 18 house searches in several federal states in mid-2019. There was talk of an international counterfeiting gang. Previously, among other things, telephones had also been tapped. There was talk of damage amounting to up to 100 million euros. The main defendant had to be taken into custody and remained there for a longer period of time. He was only released for the time being after paying an immensely high bail. The counterfeit vehicles included a “James Dean Porsche” 550 and a Le Mans Porsche 917. What was initially more than 100 cases turned into just over 20 in the indictment. During the trial, however, the question repeatedly arose as to how one should actually define a counterfeit classic racing car. After all, there is no racing car that is still the same as it was when it left the factory.
The two co-defendants have now gone home without punishment. But they are still punished. And plenty of it. Because, as her defenders explained several times, her previously impeccable public reputation had suffered badly. The 77-year-old Porsche icon, multiple winner for the luxury brand and later also race director and brand ambassador, was even banned from the premises by Porsche - as a co-plaintiff in the proceedings. At least an apology is probably due, according to the Aachener Zeitung.

wow, this is surprising....but very positive at least for JB- - hopefully he will get some reparation.

kinda like going to a movie
a huge bomber flying over
bomb drops to ground
all you here in the audience is a pop corn fart..................

While I don’t know all the ins and outs glad I put “innocent until proven guilty” in many of my comments on this thread about this evolving story given how this has all concluded.

Imagine it will be rather awkward between Barth and his former employer if they were indeed a co-plaintiff as is being reported by press. However perhaps on balance less uncomfortable than if the court had found guilty of the allegations a man who was so prominent a figure in authenticating so many important Porsche road and race cars for Porsche and its customers over so many years while he was an employee.

One shadow at least has lifted that had been looming over classic Porsche market with this outcome. I wish all the parties who were vindicated well.

Steve

But hang on, is not proving something vindication?
Imo, the fact the court or prosecution can't prove the fraud, doesn't automatically mean that the 2 defendants are innocent.

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Originally Posted by 911MRP

Innocent until proven guilty

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I don’t know about the facts of this case or about legal processes in Germany but would the above principle not apply like it would if it were trial in England — in Scotland somewhat unusually there is a “not proven” verdict available in some proceedings. There is a wiki page about not proven under Celtic law for those interested in the nuance. However “not guilty” and “not proven” verdict are both an acquittal in Scotland. How does it work in that part of Germany where this trial was held that’s all that matters in this case?

I imagine if I were a high profile defendant in a case that was dismissed by judge I’d probably claim I’d been vindicated in court.
Steve

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Originally Posted by haul

.but very positive at least for JB- - hopefully he will get some reparation.

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i deeply hope not...i`v seen several of those cars in question...just sad to see how greed destroyed those cars-(some of which at least had an original frame) but incorrect parts everywhere.they used whatever they had in the shelfes or could get for cheap...all built to maximize profit...shame on all of them involved....

And the other 917-043 is here in Philadelphia at the Simeone Foundation Museum; Daisy (pre accident) is in the background
Attachment 616155

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Originally Posted by rhegra

. . . No solid evidence has been provided in the trial days so far . . .

. . . still some haggling in the courtroom about what kind of fine the defendants should be given, as there was at least suspicion of criminal offenses . . .

. . . The 77-year-old Porsche icon, multiple winner for the luxury brand and later also race director and brand ambassador, was even banned from the premises by Porsche - as a co-plaintiff in the proceedings. At least an apology is probably due . . .

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Reputation --- and integrity . . . don't require (or survive?) adjudication

Being anywhere even CLOSE to a mess like this says enough for me





Icon, schmicon




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