1972 911 oil tank and filler

OK boys and girls,

Do you think the 1972 911 with its special oil tank location and the "very special" location to fill the oil (left rear fender) VS the gas filler (left front fender) and all the problems that occured trying to fill the oil tank with gas, has a bigger collector value today because it's only one year of production. Should the problem of almost 40 years ago haunt the sale of the "lemon" as we saw it in the day?

I remember the problem well because I had a shop that had to sort out gas in the oil problems. Today Im thinking its kinda a "Novelty", kinda like a 911R....kinda cool....

I just posted this 72' oil thing because of seeing the Raj-Miester's 911R oil cap...........its a great looking cap but it even has the word "OIL" dymo labled twice on it (don't wanna put gas in that hole during a race)!!

Worth more or who cares?

Kevin

I have to agree, '72 is my favorite year.

All models in the US had MFI. I do not think the '73's had any advances so we could call the '72 the best of the longhoods.

They did move the oil tank back to the same location with the 964, so the factory knew that they had it right.

My favorite too! According to a factory publication at the time, moving the oil tank in front of the rear wheel moved the center of gravity 6 inches forward. Now that is a big change for a rear biased car design. It was a good engineering design, but unfortunately it was moved back behind the rear wheel until the introduction in 89 of the 964. Maybe Porsche could have won a few more races in the 70s with the 911 and its RSR iterations had they stayed with the design, who knows.

My favorite year as well. Piech at his best.

Add a bigger displacement motor with MFI for all models in the US, provide a tougher transmission to handle the increased torque, move 15 pounds of oil in front of the rear wheel, tweak the struts for better geometry, ditch the hydro-pneumatic suspension on the std. E, make available a front air dam bumper, add inertia belts, improve the radiator cooler (no trombone yet), no door bars yet, no ugly black bumperettes yet, S is still top model, provide new colors - and keep the chrome (but make the grilles out of plastic to save a few ounces).

So, what I'm hearing so far is that the goofyness of the oil tank, means nothing anymore. I should ask the age of the Post-ers to see if He-She was around and into Porsches back then!

Its kinda like trying to convince a less than 40 year old that 4 door cars suck! Hell, I even have a problem with the Panamera......don't get me wrong, if I had the extra Scoot, I would own one!!

So far I'm totally wrong how some (not all) would be thinking!

Am I too old (57) to even think the 1968 911 was also a "Lemon" in the day? Hell, 68 was a bad year for the VW too!! Just for the record I have a 68', a 911 L Sporto.

Kevin

You would be correct, that sticker was in the 72 911 but what I don't remember, if it was a "oops" and then installed on a re-call. Seems the ones we pumped had the stickers! It seems imposible to do but man did it happen!!!

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Originally Posted by gumby1953

So, what I'm hearing so far is that the goofyness of the oil tank, means nothing anymore.
Kevin

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I would not agree that it was "goofy" then or now. Sometime you can not get past stupid. How could someone own one of these cars and not know where to put the gas and oil. I know it happened, but wow.:eek:

I am 62 and have 3 '72's.

The "oil" decal for the 72's oil door is available at Sierra Madre Collection. http://www.sierramadrecollection.com..._detail&p=6350

By the way, I'm a little biased, but '72 just happens to be my personal favorite early 911 too:D

Look what's on my car. Oh!! Yeah!

Not that I'm the Oracle on this stuff, but to me it's more of a one-year anomaly, and not a particularly attractive or desirable feature. I had a chance on a '72, but passed. Several reasons, but in part because the oil door just plain feels out of place to me. But, that's just me and please remember that I'm one of the weirdos who really likes 914-6's. That said, I could easily live with the external oil door on a 1972 ST ;)

I don't think the car owners were the major culprits when gas ended in the oil tank. I think most of the blame belongs to inattentive gas station attendants. Remember those??

- MR

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Originally Posted by Perry911

Look what's on my car. Oh!! Yeah!

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Where do I get a new one of those gaskets under the filler cap mine is stuffed?

There is no doubt that 71-72 was a big few years for the "Comp" 911, mostly all for the good!

I-we Restored a Clone RSR for Lee Man G. and the whole time I thinking why would he want to start with a 72 911 (heck, I even sold it to him) that in my mind was a "Lemon" from the past (I did tell him my thoughts on that)!! Believe me Dudes, in the day the car was not looked at as to one of the "Great Ones" it was the next year that had everybody selling the 72's to get the 73's. I remember we would hear about a friend or customer getting a new 73' and wondering if it was a MFI or CIS car or if it had the really cool Rubber bumpers! Today, you can pass on the "Rubber Bumpers" and get the CIS (not that there's anything wrong with that) off your engine before someone see's what you bought!

This post was for me to understand some of the changes from one time (almost 40 years) to another, involving really cool early 911's

I have a very OG 72 911 S engine, I think I will start looking for a donor tub................you can teach an ol' Dog something new now and again..........Hey Santa please bring me a 1972 911 S to add to the other unfinished 911's in Der Barn!

Big Ears,
Kevin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boba

I would not agree that it was "goofy" then or now. Sometime you can not get past stupid. How could someone own one of these cars and not know where to put the gas and oil. I know it happened, but wow.:eek:

I am 62 and have 3 '72's.

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I don't believe the stories about filling station attendants mixing up the oil and gas fillers. When you remove the oil filler cap, there is a dipstick obstructing the way for the fuel fill nozzle, and there is that big "OIL" decal on the door. My guess is that this story originated from finding gas in the oil caused by the MFI thermostat not working correctly. Some of these MFI cars ran so rich that they flooded the oil tanks with fuel. A friend of mine had his new 73S "make oil," until until he made the dealer put Webers on the car.

I'm with you guys. The '72 cars are special because of the tank location. I only wish they would have kept in there for the Carrera the following year. This would have made this special model even better still.:)

Sup Withers,

You made the right commitment, now you gotta find your Dads 73' of course keep your 72'!! Reminds me of my first memory of riding in the storage area behind the rear seat of my Moms 59 Vert VW during night time Street Rally's ....a little tight but I was around six.

You don't have to lower the car at all from stock to have the front spoiler work, it works better and better the more you lower the car. You must remember about changing the susp. settings and of course scraping the Darn thing on the ground going up curbs.


gumby1953

The 'gas in the oil door' has to be an old wive's tale. It's just not possible to put anything in there without removing a dipstick. And you have to open the passenger door to access it.

As I understand it, the tank was moved back to its previous location because of side-impact legislation in the U.S. It's the same reason the 1973 models got the reinforcement bars in the doors.

I don't think it moves the balancing point or center of gravity anything like six full inches. Is there some kind of documentation that suggests that? Especially when the engine is running, there is not very much oil in the tank at all. And weight distribution isn't a big deal when the car is sitting in its parking space. :)

Still, it's my favorite year of 911.

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Originally Posted by JackOlsen

The 'gas in the oil door' has to be an old wive's tale. It's just not possible to put anything in there without removing a dipstick. And you have to open the passenger door to access it.

As I understand it, the tank was moved back to its previous location because of side-impact legislation in the U.S. It's the same reason the 1973 models got the reinforcement bars in the doors.

I don't think it moves the balancing point or center of gravity anything like six full inches. Is there some kind of documentation that suggests that? Especially when the engine is running, there is not very much oil in the tank at all. And weight distribution isn't a big deal when the car is sitting in its parking space. :)



Still, it's my favorite year of 911.

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Here is a copy of the Ferry Porsche statement from May 72. I scanned it from reprinted articles in a Brooklands Books publication Porsche 911 1965-1975.

You can find the COG statement under the Porsche's impossible dream paragraph.

"This year we placed the oil tank in front of the rear wheels. A simple move that shifted the car's center of gravity six inches toward the middle."

I don't know whether Dr. Ferry was making this statement referring to a car sitting static or moving, but moving 15-20 lb (oil plus tank depending on how much oil in tank when running, with oil @ 7.5 lb per gallon) approx. 30 inches forward in the car, and ahead of the rear wheel would definitely shift the COG a fair amount, which should improve handling at the limit.

Hey Raj-Miester,

When I decide to dump some of the real-lic's I will call you second....I already got someone who Dibbed the 1st spot!

Memba, I now need a 72 S (cause they seem to be cooler than I knew!) for my spare 72' S engine!!

Lemon Head,
Kevin

I just did a little research concerning the "Porsche Propaganda" in the Best 911 ever ad (and it might have been if the oil door had something differen't to offer). It seems Dr. Porsche's nose is just a touch bigger in the add that followed the one you see!

So, now that you all have convinced me the 72' is now the Best 911 ever (even tho I think the 73' is)......"Why do you think Porsche went back to the rear mounted tank the very next year??" Can't wait to hear this!"

Lemon Head,
Kevin

side impact protection made them move the tank back, AFAIK - they did not give up on the holy grail of a better polar moment of inertia and better center of gravity tho, and were able to move the oil tank there much later on!

but the '72 lost the wonderful type 901/911 transmission's road racing shift pattern

and the engine has lower compression

the solution is obvious - hack up a '70 or '71

or put that power train into a '72 shell

Raj,

The RSR seat is a Recaro type and uses Fire re-tardent material. Its the same stuff used currently in all Recaro seats. You know it looks like modern Headliner material. The seat in the 911 R we are restoring is OG and in perfect shape. You wanns see it? Is that what you asked?

KJ

I have that "Das Porsche 911 Conzept" German brochure too (dated 10/69). I'm pretty sure that's an early non flared 2.3 ST pictured. I've never seen that seat material in another vintage photograph either. Probably Recaros.

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Originally Posted by gumby1953

I just did a little research concerning the "Porsche Propaganda" in the Best 911 ever ad (and it might have been if the oil door had something differen't to offer). It seems Dr. Porsche's nose is just a touch bigger in the add that followed the one you see!

So, now that you all have convinced me the 72' is now the Best 911 ever (even tho I think the 73' is)......"Why do you think Porsche went back to the rear mounted tank the very next year??" Can't wait to hear this!"

Lemon Head,
Kevin

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Ive heard the tank was put back where it was before due to USA laws for side impact. So, the oel tank was in the wrong place. Someone has mentioned too, that 73 was the first year for side impact door braces? I have a 72 T & my first impression was that the oil door was another fuel tank! Of course I had no idea about dry sump lubrication either at the time.I do know that the tank,oil, lines etc. weigh a bunch in the wrong area!.....Cliff

I think the center of mass movement should be more like 0,6 inches forward with the '72 oil tank. The movement of the MC due to shifting a part of the total mass should only be a distance equal to the percentage of the mass moved times how far it is moved. Moving 30 pounds of oil forward by 24 inches should move it (30/2400)*24 = 0.3 inches forward.

Kevin, I'm going to add my vote for the 72 being the preferred model, partly due to the oil tank location being a big part of that car's overall essence of "911" From the mid sixties to the mid eighties I had been a 356 guy. By the mid eighties I had been through the dealership and was now working at an independent Porsche shop. By the way, although we were well aware of the wrong gas door routine, I have never personally ever had to drain gas from an oil tank mistake. Of course by this time we were servicing SC's, and were well into the exploding 2.7's and none of the newer 911's seemed to impress me enough to want one. However even then I did like the older 911's we serviced and of course especially the S's. An opportunity came up to buy a customer's 72 S that I had been maintaining, so I knew the car well, and decided right then that if I was ever to forgo 356's for a 911 it was going to have to be a pure "hot rod" 911. The 72 with its side oil tank, front cooler, MFI, aluminum front calipers, fit the bill as what I perceived was the "last" of the pure 911's, where everything was dedicated to better performance. I struggled to buy that car, but have never regretted it. I still have it, have added another 72S, and recently a 67S to satisfy the SWB urge. It's fun taking customers, who are new to Porsche's, for a quick demo ride in my "old" sled. They always come back in disbelief, can't believe what these old relics can do!!!

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Originally Posted by Flieger

I think the center of mass movement should be more like 0,6 inches forward with the '72 oil tank. The movement of the MC due to shifting a part of the total mass should only be a distance equal to the percentage of the mass moved times how far it is moved. Moving 30 pounds of oil forward by 24 inches should move it (30/2400)*24 = 0.3 inches forward.

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I went to one of the 'bibles' of car design..Carroll Smith's Tune To Win just to check on things, and Flieger (Max) is correct. The change in CG is most likely much less than an inch. I made a simplified calculation assuming 20 lbs were moved from a location over the rear wheels to over the front wheels, and the CG moved approx. 0.75 inches forward. The actual CG change would be less because the 20 lb weight is not shifted so much. I guess the article misquoted Dr. Ferry, or it was a simple misplaced decimal point when changing from centimeters to inches. Good catch Max.

KJ,
In case you forgot, here are a few shots of your handiwork on my '72. Just one of the many detail areas that you went over the top on. Thanks for every time you and the guys said that's not good enough.

Hi Lads,

My OG post was to get a feel from the Gallery about the thoughts of the "Misled" oel tank filler door! And to really find out what you guys thought of a compared value....lets say between a 72 and the 73 911. I didn't invent the damn thing! I thought some you "youngies" might wanna know about what it was like working on our "Beloved" Porsche's in the early days. We could talk about 356's till the cows come home but this is about 911's

Seems that when the tank was moved back to the area of the 72 in the newer models, Porsche remembered the filling problem and made the placement of the filler back in the engine bay!!!!! Wow, good thinking!

I have already said that you guys including my friend and customer Lee Mann, that I have looked over what was a problem 30 something years ago and have come around to think the 72 911 might be a more Special 911 than most.

Good,Bad and still Ugly,
Kevin

PS Lee Man, you should install more of the updated "OIL" stickers on your cap.............I can't be held responsible for anyone who might think that could be somewhere to put fuel in...............you know if there is a hole somewhere, someone will try to fill it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackOlsen

The 'gas in the oil door' has to be an old wive's tale. It's just not possible to put anything in there without removing a dipstick. And you have to open the passenger door to access it.

As I understand it, the tank was moved back to its previous location because of side-impact legislation in the U.S. It's the same reason the 1973 models got the reinforcement bars in the doors.

I don't think it moves the balancing point or center of gravity anything like six full inches. Is there some kind of documentation that suggests that? Especially when the engine is running, there is not very much oil in the tank at all. And weight distribution isn't a big deal when the car is sitting in its parking space. :)

Still, it's my favorite year of 911.

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Sorry for the offtopic but nothing further from reality. My father at a gas station here did it (I do not know how you say it's hard to do) but they did it. The gas station was responsible for the crane and cleaning in the porsche and so my father told me the other day something of a few laps in a circuit that I am not very clear. What I mean by this is that you have to be vigilant. Today people are more consistent with these cars. But in the days when those cars were considered outdated you can see the treatment that qualified employees gave to these ...!

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Originally Posted by 37yrold911

side impact protection made them move the tank back, AFAIK - they did not give up on the holy grail of a better polar moment of inertia and better center of gravity tho, and were able to move the oil tank there much later on!

but the '72 lost the wonderful type 901/911 transmission's road racing shift pattern

and the engine has lower compression

the solution is obvious - hack up a '70 or '71

or put that power train into a '72 shell

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Sadly.... I have one just like this. It's a long story, and a very bad decision on my part... really kicking myself in the nads on a daily basis for the last couple of decades. :(

Another old thread coming back to life.
The factory moved the oil tank back to the forward position with the introduction of the 964 and used their leftover oil doors on the C4 lightweight and the not too shabby 959. Just one more endorsement for the ‘72 leading the way!

I know this thread started with a focus on the oil door, but it’s wandered to the broader question of the appeal of the 72 model year in general. I’m a fan of the E model in particular, which three magazine road tests in the day showed was slightly quicker to 100 mph than the S model. The means that the 72E was the quickest regular production car Porsche had ever built. Maybe this is why my wife once said, “Don’t ever sell this one.”

Attachment 459370

I am refurbishing the oil system in one of these '72 gems right now. It is an old friend's car.

I'm all for getting the weight of the oil and tank forward.

I'm NOT for the massive corrosion of the rear quarter panel and oil tank that results from road dirt settling between the tank and fender!

If you own one of these 'special' cars or are contemplating buying one I would recommend removing the tank to see what is going on up there.

When I didn't have my own 911, this friend used to LEND me his...
One day (in 1977) as I dutifully checked the oil level I missed the dipstick storage tube and dropped the dipstick into the tank-
It was a dicy 45 minutes with magnets, coat hangers and lots of colorful language before I retrieved the dipstick. We sure laugh about it now...

I still like the idea of this design, after all, the driver determines what flap is accessed for fill-ups-
But the corrosion is insidious.

Look now or have it pop out in this convoluted and very difficult to repair correctly area!

The compression ratio on these '72 cars resembles a Briggs and Stratton- 7.3 to one?
It is expensive to upgrade new Pistons and Cylinders but without C/R the engine will never perform like it was intended.

Luckily the car I'm working one has been upgraded. It runs really well with the 9.? to 1 setup.

You can help the situation immensely by assembling an inner fender shield positioned forward of the tire. I made mine by fashioning a custom frame from light aluminum bar stock, made a pattern from cardboard, transferred it to a thin rubber fabric and riveted the matrix together. It attaches nicely to the oil lines. I'll get a couple of photos when I get back in the garage.

I see that the Singer has the External Oil Door. Wonder if the Oil Tank is forward of the rear wheel.
Attachment 466335

It is, as this starts as a 964 and that is the stock location.

Might be the relocation of the suspension points (72 ) aluminum trailing arms fit perfectly I’ve heard , contribute to the COG? Any thoughts.