I saw these posted by Kinnebrew Motors on Facebook, not sure if they've been posted here before. If not, they are very cool.
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I saw these posted by Kinnebrew Motors on Facebook, not sure if they've been posted here before. If not, they are very cool.
And a few more.
great photos - all look like they are 1973 model year
I thought all the 73 car's had those big black foamy bumperettes, not the chrome ones.
Definitely 73, rear oil tank, black border lenses, and judging by the rear tail lights R.O.W. cars that didn't get the rubber buggy baby bumpers.
Great pictures Adam!!
I agree Hugh, in fact probably 'late' '73 from the single bolt fan strap...Quote:
all look like they are 1973 model year
Nope, only the U.S. (DOT) bound '73's.... ROW had the little ones....Quote:
I thought all the 73 car's had those big black foamy bumperettes, not the chrome ones.
Great photos....
And this is why I let Matt handle all the detailed 9 series stuff, I'm going to play with a 356. We split it up about 5 years ago, too much for one person to learn and remember, splitting it up made a lot of sense.
---Adam
agreed Chuck... and the RS and possibly the other completed cars look like they have the can am decal on the rear side window which would date it April or later in 1973
Yes, Can Am decal state the period.
Great photos, thanks for sharing.
I'm curious about the wheel finish on the RS - looks like what we now refer to as 'RSR' finish, no?
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...1&d=1487220747
In the pic of the lot of finished cars you can see a few US-bumper cars. I'm surprised the ratio isn't the other way around, though.
In the first picture of the second post (the interior of the Targa body), you can see the additional support welded in at the foot wells. The Targa bodies had a number of additional chassis pieces to help add rigidity. They also were good places for rust to form.
Would love to find the exact date. The US bound silver Targa in the 6th photo looks like my 73.5.
Scott Kinnebrew of Kinnebrew Motors put them on Facebook. It looks like his family had a dealership in Tallahassee, Florida from 1963 to 1989.Quote:
Originally Posted by jac1976
https://www.facebook.com/kinnebrewmotors/?hc_ref=SEARCH
There is a message button on there, so you could reach out to him.
---Adam
I like that they included the clock among the gauges in the engine test room!
How else could they record the correct time on the test sheet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jameel
:)
Really enjoyed these 1973 photos, thanks for reposting them and to the Kinnebrew folks for posting them too
From rear shot of RS it doesn't look like wheels are colour coded to me? It has no headrests, no Carrera side decal (light colour? or GPW without side decal?) and a rear fog lamp
Unlike the cluster of three on other photo this example has has a registration plate.
If that is a CAN AM sticker they were introduced 2 March 1973 so date of photo is apparently on or more likley after that date. If it helps Feb>March 1973 equates very approximately to RS chassis 0770 according to usual lists so we are seeing photos from a visit from after the first RS series were complete -- approaching half way through second series or beyond that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jac1976
Probaly not very late however, with the lack of foliage on the trees in another shot evidently the visit was before the Northern Europe leaf regrowth in 1973 -- suggesting visit March or early part of April? Probably not late April or May onwards when possibly more leaves would be seen.
My guess: Example pictured probably falls in RS vin range 0770s - lowish 1000s and was pictured early part of spring -- March or early April 73?
Marque historians and green fingered Germans may know better.
If the original Kinnebrew family photographer can't recall date and you really need to know there are clues in that one picture that might narrow down further the RS DOB: 73 model year RS with m472 conversion / touring variant, LHD, German reg plate is readable and already fitted at factory apparently, factory sunroof, rear fog lamp, CAN AM sticker indicates build on after 2 March 73, so approx vin 0770s or higher vin presumably, very light colour or maybe GP white but with no Carrera side decals, no headrests, regular Fuchs no B/G/R colour coded wheels, from the pic looks factory new.
While someone spotted they have a clock in the test console; pity there is no calendar on wall to date the visit. Although by the standards calendars typically hung in factory workshops from that era the image might not have been allowed to be posted here :)
Steve
(PS Liked seeing the Hazet Assistent on the shop floor they are nice old item and suprisingly strong /handy. While there is evidence elsewhere of red/maroon assistent examples in some country service workshops the light monochrome colour here and blue examples in colour photos during other factory tours around 72 suggests factory itself used blue assistents by this time)
The other 2 RS's don't appear to have color coded wheels either.
Not RSR finish. You can just barley see the bright spoke at the edge. The rough outer is the same on the RS and RSR.....Quote:
Originally Posted by keith
H
The dark one wouldn't have them and many of the white didn't have them either.Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTarga
By the lack of color in the photos, they could conceivably even be light yellow?
Adam, Great photos BTW and thanks for posting....
H
really? I learned something today. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Weidman
Here are some additional Porsche Factory Photos from 1971!
Charlie White
Scottsdale, Arizona
http://derwhites356literature.com/Bi...11Porsche.html
http://derwhites356literature.com/Ne...1Porsche2.html
In the above photo, the license plate has a date code sticker just after the N on the top...
Outstanding to see these Factory photos from '73!
Steve, the light colored RS is probably Light Ivory without side graphics. Not many had side scripts. Interesting to see the group of three Touring Carreras without side or rear graphics. Don't you wonder what the story is with these 3 cars? Also cool to see another RS with the rear spoiler raised and engine oil being added. Great stuff!
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...1&d=1487220747
So late 1973 Light Ivory M472 RS 2.7, with a sunroof.
Is it a fog light on the left of the registration number?
Car delivered in Germany, certainly in Nürnberg according to the registration number.
Thank you for the pictures.
I have had a go at identifying it but so far come up short
I am not convinced it is light Ivory, could be GP white with the side decals not on or possibly light yellow. However If it is Nurnberg it may have been a Fa Hahn car from Fellbach. That would seem to be the closest main dealer.
So I looked at all M472 cars delivered to 115 (F A Hahn) and then sorted them for colour and having a sun roof and a rear fog light.
There was only one light ivory one with a sunroof (0277) but it did not have a rear fog light
there were 4 GP white and blue cars but only 0884 an April car, had a sun roof and rear fog light. However it also had a rear wiper so that could not be it
there were 5 GP white and red. only one (0500) had the rear fog light as well as the roof.
there were 40 light yellow cars but only 2 had both a sunroof and rear fog light. (0733 and 1188 and April car)
So IF it was a F A Hahn car there were only 3 to choose from.
1188 had a lot of options including black PORSCHE lettering on the sides so that was probably ruled out.
0733 had Head rests and sports seats L&R I cant really tell but it does not look to me that the car has head rests so maybe not. It also had a power antenna on the right and I am not sure if the photo would show it but i cant see evidence of one.
0500 was a Jan 73 car and had a sports seat on the drivers side, retractable seat belts but no head restraints. It had the antenna on the left hand side and no other options except electric windows HOWEVER it has a Can AM decal and they did not get used until 2 March 1973 so that is ruled out.
so more work i guess...... it may be 1188 without the PORSCHE on the sides (but it is on the rear). The date would stack up as it was an April car. Of the other options it had L&R head restrains and seat belts and a power antenna on the right so on balance I dont think it is that car which would rule out all F A Hahn cars
can anyone tell if there are headrests or sports seats in the car? I dont think so but it is hard to see. I think I can see seat belts but again am not sure. I cannot see an antenna on the RHS or any other distinguishing things
excellent Columbo work Hugh
excellent Hugh. I can see plastic plugs in the upper part of the seats so imo no headrests. They look like standard seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by HughH
I tackled this from another direction - just looked at cars made after the start of March - ie from 0770 onward. I then pulled out all M472 cars in LHD that had both a sunroof and rear fog light. there were 30 such cars, most of which were German delivered.
Then I removed any cars that were obviously incorrect as they had rear crash bars, rear wipers etc. which this car does not taking it down to 22 cars.
Then I removed all cars with headrests (as it does not look like this car has them). that left 5 cars: 0967, 1105, 1137, 1171 and 1298
1298 was glacier blue - probably too dark a color for this car in the photo - was made in May 1973 and delivered via F A Hahn. It had no other options except retractable seat belts and front fog lights - so a possibility, but unlikely
1105 was light yellow had sports seats and antenna on the right. the car in the photo does not have an antenna as from checking my car from a similar angle my right mounted antenna is clearly visible - so not that one
1137 was gulf orange (too dark for this photo?) and tinted glass all around - so almost certainly not as the car looks a lighter color and glass does not tinted in the photo
1171 was light yellow had L&R sports seats black PORSCHE side lettering and antenna on the LHS. So almost certainly not that one
Finally 0967 was light Ivory delivered through MAHAG Max Moritz in Munich and completed in April. It had "shoulder lap belts" ie non retractable which is possibly what is seen in the photo on the LHS and no other options - so ordinary seats and no head rests. My money would be on this being the car in the photo.
Previous mentions of the RS models depicted not having side graphics; was probably more common back in the day then generally known.
As a reference, the back page photo from the 1973 USA Factory Brochure had an early RS and note no side 'Carrera' graphic. Also note the crude hand-done touch-up of turn signal lens edges and front grills to black.
Attachment 412613
Great detective work Hugh. I wouldn't bet against your analysis / conclusion even for a guy whose trees probably don't even follow northern European rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fryardds
Hi Brian, hope all is well with you.
Hard to tell colour just from photo . Suspect with Hugh's detective work the 73 April build date crowd are poring over these shots looking for their 911 in build process.
Ernie get the eagle eye test award W for the licence sticker. I can't make detail out.
Pity the shot doesn't show more of the raised lid detail Also quite nice to see the as newly minted RS look and the distinctive stance that somehow even good restos don't quite capture.
Hi Karim, Hard to tell seat type from that angle but suspect you are right about standard tether than different shape sportier Recaros often found in M472Quote:
Originally Posted by 911T1971
Coincidentally I've just posted a picture of the British importers press demo RS brand new without headrests on another post -- making a observation about about some RS M472 having static three point seat belts. (Too late a factory visit to be that car no 0061 and RHD anyway so certainly not sugesting it)
Think in 70s some folks back then didn't much like headrests or seatbelts.
Below is thst photo also taken 1973 for comparison to the one above which does seem to confirm your seat type theory.
Attachment 412614
All the best
Steve
I'm impressed, but not really surprised :DQuote:
Originally Posted by HughH
I knew that you could certainly identify this car, or at least give a small list of possibilities ;)
So, where is 0967 now, if it has survived?
I cant take too much credit... all the hard work was done in the RS book first edition by Dr. K. All I have done is put that data into a searchable form that I can also sort etc to create short list and then eliminate obvious wrong ones. As to where it is, if indeed it is 0967, I dont have a record of it appearing anywhere recently (ie in past 25 years).
I'm with you Mahag sounds far better for Nürnberg than Hahn FellbachQuote:
Originally Posted by HughH
Nice work Hugh, The License plate Safety Test sticker has an expiration date of April, that would corroborate the build date and the time for registration. I'd go with 9113600967... anyone know if Germany DMV records are open to the public ?
Doug, that car was the defunct 2.7S (yes, 2.7S). Its not an RS, but a prototyp.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUGS73E
It therefore predated the RS and had no RS rear engine "Bürzel".
The car was a while ago put into auction, christies i think, beautiful car.
This one...1972 oil
Ernie,
Did you take that photo of the Signal Yellow RS prototype in Monterey a few years back. It was being auctioned by whom I can't recall out at McCall's party at the flight center. As all prototypes, it had some strange details....the satin textured window bright work. Note the extended wheel studs.
At least 2 of them same color ... and more prototypes I believe ...Quote:
Doug, that car was the defunct 2.7S (yes, 2.7S). Its not an RS, but a prototyp.
It therefore predated the RS and had no RS rear engine "Bürzel".
The car was a while ago put into auction, christies i think, beautiful car.
I know Dave Mohlman had one in '08
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16133/lot/359/
Took a few of the car, spent all my time under the yellow R... first thing that jumped out at you was the trim.
A couple years ago I tried to find some info on a ´73 delivered new in Germany. With the assistanse of a friend living there, we got this reply from the KFB: All info deleted after only seven years.. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie W
Ich bedanke mich für Ihre E-Mail.
Leider kann ich Ihnen nicht behilflich sein, da über Fahrzeuge die länger als 7 Jahre ausser Betrieb gesetzt waren/sind im zentralen Fahrzeugregister keinerlei Einträge mehr vorhanden sind, da diese nach 7 Jahren endgültig gelöscht werden. Von daher ist eine Auskunft nicht mehr möglich.
Don't know about Germany but info -- especially name and addresses -- is more touchy about sharing in these times of personal data protection laws
In UK I got names and addresses of PO from UK govt driver and vehicle license authority back in 90s and contacted them always got a helpful response and ongoing contact
but such info more carefully controlled by authorities now I think.
In Switzerland, all DMV records of all previous owners available to proven current car owner..records back of about when cars and their number plates were invented. Got all adresses, dates of immatriculation etc..being it a newer or older car (once) registred in the country.
Germany is very difficult about this.
Nowadays with the current EU paperwork you only have one previous owner if the "old" Fahrzeugbrief was lost or scrapped.
Cheers
Uli
Did anyone ever reach out to the dealership guy who originally posted the photos?
---Adam