If anyone is interested there is an early 911 owners manual on ebay, German with no date in good condition for $695 BIN, a pretty good price. Not mine.
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If anyone is interested there is an early 911 owners manual on ebay, German with no date in good condition for $695 BIN, a pretty good price. Not mine.
Item number?
It was snatched up quickly this morning by someone who thanked me nicely but was on ebay for a week at the reduced price. I almost bought it myself many times.
I find it hard to believe that a first edition German owner's manual was on ebay for a week for 700 clams and no one here saw it. Something's rotten in Denmark. And Southern California.
I'm guessing that just because it didn't have a date doesn't necessarily mean it was first edition.
The I/65 drivers manual must then be the first dated (english) version? Has "911" in the lower right corner of the cover. My I/65 manual shows the gas door pull knob in the driver door hinge area. Thumbed through it today for the first time in ages, lots of inconsistency in the photos.
Soterik, (for lack of your real first name)
I have an undated early 911 driver's manual (W312) that I'd like to
get more information about. Regarding the very early 911 owner's
manuals, what should I be looking for to determine how early it is?
Any help appreciated!
Charlie White
derwhite@aol.com
This made my night. I cannot believe you two have never met!
Frank,
You will understand a little more after YOU have had a stroke like I had. Memories
disappear, conversations become difficult because those memories are gone. I
remember the name Soterik, but not his real name. Wait until you turn 73!
Charlie White
derwhite@aol.com
I hope Der White forgot telling me I should jump out of an airplane with no parachute after I reminded the 356 Registry how Porsche used to call seat belts "chicken belts". Mild compared to whats his name. Ill never win a popularity contest.
Rough and tumble thread.
I'm in.
I believe this is a first edition.
Feel free to challenge me as I would like to confirm the facts in this discussion.
Close to "on topic"......I'm wondering what the first 82 cars had in their glove box. These first edition manuals we are referring to have "911" in the lower right corner of the cover. Could it be that there was also a drivers manual made for the 901 cars that predates this version. Maybe with 901 on the cover?
I have a technische Daten brochure (W252) which has the similar red/blue cover, dated "October 64."
However I think those undated red cover manuals are all -or could also be- early 1965.
Im probably wrong. But there exists also "ribbed grey" covers and those are for shure late 64, September actually. Some say 901/2000 on their covers.
Btw you cannot go to use the manuals photo to really date its issue date.
While its true the door detail is leading to very early cars specs, manuals in genera got
slowly updated and older photos kept within it, even the cars evolved.
(As its the case with the jack in later manuals , used well into 1968 but showing still a swb body)
Not saying the photo is wrong but only printing date (even they are appereantly missing ) are true indicators of issue date, not photos within a manual. Especially on such a early item, where issue of 1964 or 1965 makes a difference.
Not saying i know the answer and I might be wrong, but imo never would go for photos in factory lit when dating the item.
Have there been factory reprints of these early manuals, or have reproductions been made?
If so, is there an obvious way to tell? Would reprints always indicate a reprint date?
Jon B.
Vista, CA
There are absolutely counterfeits out there. I bought one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon B
Seller was nice enough to take it back when I pointed out the fuzzy photos.
well well,
as I am interested always in early pics...and have not personally seen a 64/earliest 65 911, only the 912 counterfeits,
is there a pic of
-gas tank latch
-engine hood latch situation
is the dash in the pics "mirroring, or the wood panel?
in the 912 editions the speedo in the dash is a 250km/h 911 one...
seats also with six pipes, pepita?
Frank, have there been reproductions made and openly offered as reproductions? If so, do you recall who made or marketed them?
Aside from the photo quality, are there other obvious differences? Paper quality?
Does anyone know for certain if there were factory reprints of these early manuals?
Jon B.
Vista, CA
Jon,
Word on the street is that it was Stoddard or Freisinger who commissioned them. They are not represented as reprints, otherwise the date would reflect that. Pitty the foo who coughs up 2k for one of these.
Besides the photos, the clear spiral binder is a dead giveaway.
What is the publication date of this undated 911 Owner's Manual?
Charlie White
Scottsdale, Arizona
Charlie,
Yours looks just like the one I posted.
As Karim and others have noted, obviously it's not the earliest one otherwise it would be "901".
I'm a buyer for a 901 version just in case someone has a lead.
Would someone please post a pic of the cover of an original 901 Owner's Manual?
Charlie White
I have an English language version of that, W252e, also dated October 64.Quote:
Originally Posted by 911T1971
It's very similar to the Technical Data section of my W312e I/65 owner's manual but there are differences: The October 64 booklet gives Bore as 3.15 in. (80 mm) while the Driver's Manual has 80 mm (3.15 in.).
It's interesting that the Driver's Manuals don't have obvious dates.
@charlie
thanks for the images...nicely convinced.
one shot of the dashboard? wooden or blank color?
Im now pretty shure undated 65 manuals are reprints, issued later by the factory.
Ladenburg has one too and its stated a reprint.
Karim,
There is an "undated" reproduction by the factory. However it does state that it is a reprint, right where it states "subject to change", just to the right of where you would usually find the date. I'm trying to find the image, currently can't...sorry. Possibly done at the same time as the factory did the reprint of the original 901 brochure?
Picture for "Haul"!
CW
Would be interesting to know what chassis number was the changeover point from the door jamb fuel door pull.
I suspect they went away from it because of potential corrosion issues?
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...65-cars/page56#559 as early aQuote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
mem
@charlie
tnx
I was meaning when they changed from this one:Quote:
Originally Posted by trdking
In the thread Special early 1964 features on 1965 cars Jacques Verdier had a "no" for chassis # 300292 and a "?" for chassis # 300250.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Beck
I believe that was the change between "under the dash" (hook style) to "through the dash" was it not?
I believe the "door jamb pull" may have ended fairly early during production.
Addendum:
Apparently 300254 was the last chassis to use the "hook" fuel door pull. What I'm after is the changeover from the door jamb pull (see pic in manual) to the hook.
My edition I/65 also shows the door jamb pull....
The reprints are clearly marked as such
That one is.Quote:
Originally Posted by haul
It seems to me that "Edition I/65" means the first edition for the 1965 Porsche 911 or possibly the first edition of 1965, but not January 1065. Does anybody know when they were actually printed?
Jim,
I think the edition I/65 indicates the manual was the January 1965 edition. I sold a XI/65 edition here recently indicating it is the November 1965 issue. Not sure of the print dates though.
For the record: here are photos of the XI/65 manual. Notice the changes in the dash from the I/65 edition.
Attachment 413339
Attachment 413340
I have a nice VIII/65 manual in German if somebody needs one. For early 66?
Frank, how long ago do you "think/believe" there was a repro done? The two non dated manuals I've had (one german, one english) both had significant "foxing" (tinting) to the edges of the paper, the cover wasn't a bright white, and the pictures were as clear and perfect as any known original manual I have (I currently have probably 100 original manuals including NOS from my dad, NOS from Vaseks, plus used ones I've acquired over the years). Note that there is another "tell" on manuals. The noted repro just above has the "tell", and the undated manuals I have seen don't have it. Happy to show anyone who wants to visit my table at the LA lit meet.
The seller told me he thought he purchased 5-10 years ago?
If I hadn't noticed the clear spiral binder I don't think I would have considered that it was a fake. After comparing print and photo clarity to an original it was obvious.
I have an undated one, it is German language. I have a 1/65, but it is English. I fully believe them to be original, I've seen repros. And I've had them longer than they've been worth reproducing.
Soterik, I don't know your real name either, what table?
http://www.autoforeignservices.com/contact-us.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by 88cs
Any new observations or revelations after Lit Show?