Standard and Special Colors for late 64 until May 65 901/911 ?

I recently had an interesting conversation with 1965 MY owners. While its universially accepted that Modelyear 1966 had, among others, Bahama Yellow and Sand Beige as Standard Colors and among others, Champagne Yellow as Special Color, some sources say this does not apply for 1964/1965 cars.
For those 64/65 MY cars, other colors were Standard Colors: Sky blue, Champagne Yellow, Ruby Red etc. These are basicially 356C colors.

Digging into my period literature collection including Christophorus from 1963 onwards, couldnt find proof of it. The earlist known Colorchart for 911/912, dated 5.65 shows the Standard Colors for 1965 as for 1966 Modelyear.

Yet, both Peter Morgan, Patrick Paternie and also 912 registry give another info.
So:
Where is period proof that in 1964 and 1965 (up to May 1965), Standard Colors differed than for the 1966 Model Years ?
And that colors for the 356C were carried over into 901/911 models ?
Thx

The actual paint plates attached to the car bodies? The same paint codes were stamped on plates for 1964 & 1965 356 as well as 1965 911 & 1965 912 models up to nearly the end of July invoice dates with some exceptions. These are the 64xx codes that I am referring to. However there are some other 3 digit and 5 digit (Lesonal) codes used in this period, as well as other earlier codes.

The obvious source is Dr. Brett Johnson's The 911 & 912 Porsche, a Restorer's Guide to Authenticity. According to it, the exterior colors available in 1965 were:

• 6401 Slate Gray
• 6402 Ruby Red
• 6403 Sky Blue
• 6404 Light Ivory
• 6405 Champagne Yellow
• 6406 Irish Green
• 6407 Signal Red
• 6410 Dolphin Grey
• 6411 Togo Brown
• 6412 Bali Blue
• 6413 Black

My car, 301382, and Jacques 301379 are both 6405 Champagne Yellow.

Also, it's pretty clear that the first two digits of these color codes are the year this set of colors was introduced. 66xx color codes wouldn't have been used in 1965.

davep has records showing a few cars with 64xx color codes after July 1965 and a handful with 66xx color codes before July 1966.

There is an early colour chart that I have seen before for the 65 model year 911 and 912s that shows all of the *64 colour codes and indicates which of these were "Special Colours". This is a rare item and it confirms Dr. Brett Johnsons account in his book. I have pictures of the colour chart and if I can find them I will post them. My car is 912 #451403 and it has Bali Blue, special colour paint, 6412.

Oh, and I downloaded this somewhere along the line. It has 64xx color codes:

Attachment 414570

It also shows a green interior choice--I've seen photos of at least one car with a green interior.

I looked through my brochures and found this brochure. It's printed in the USA and, hence undated but clearly shows the interiors of 1965 cars (knee pad does not wrap around, small brass ignition bezel in the 911 and painted 3 dial dash in the 912):

Attachment 414573

Attachment 414572

The car on the back cover looks like it's 6403 Sky Blue, not the later 6603 Gulf Blue.

Thanks for sharing this Jim!!

My 65 car is golf blue not gulf

I've always thought this was a useful resource...

http://www.912registry.org/content.a...dule_id=186808

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 72targa

I've always thought this was a useful resource...

http://www.912registry.org/content.a...dule_id=186808

---

You can download the source for that from Porsche http://www.porsche.com/international...ourcharts911f/ although Porsche didn't put a lot of work into making a high-quality scan.

911 F (1965-67) - Booklet colour and equipment samples (PDF; 1,4 MB) is the brochure Karim referred to at the beginning of this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeunElf

You can download the source for that from Porsche http://www.porsche.com/international...ourcharts911f/ although Porsche didn't put a lot of work into making a high-quality scan.

911 F (1965-67) - Booklet colour and equipment samples (PDF; 1,4 MB) is the brochure Karim referred to at the beginning of this thread.

---

Cool! I still think the 912 Registry site is a bit more useful...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeunElf

According to it, the exterior colors available in 1965 were:

• 6401 Slate Gray
• 6402 Ruby Red
• 6403 Sky Blue
• 6404 Light Ivory
• 6405 Champagne Yellow
• 6406 Irish Green
• 6407 Signal Red
• 6410 Dolphin Grey
• 6411 Togo Brown
• 6412 Bali Blue
• 6413 Black

---

I also know of 6420 & 6421

Agree with Karim, I can't seem to find a 911 color brochure in 1964/65 with number codes 64XX, only a 1964 356 colour chart, where champagne yellow is listed under special color. Could dealers have used this brochure for the 911?

Thx, interesting discussion.

I know most above and as many know, i pretty much own all literature and color charts ever produced.
I also own one of the earlist pricelist (RoW: 1/65 and also US: 12/64) ever produced but those lists do not list specific color code available. And of course I have Johnsons book as well and dozens of other books, including Millers literature book.
I also checked the 912registry..but where are the period sources they refer too ?

Paint plates of original cars are a good indicator, i agree.
And I agree with Milou, the 64/65 colors are similar to the paints for 356C models.
The earlist Colorchart specificially for 911/912 ever issued is probably from May 1965 and which I have.

But so far nobody has proof with a period document showing that both the 901', the 232 in 64 produced 911' as well as all 911 produced up to May 1965 had a color choice similar to the outgoing Porsche 356C model.
I would love to see it because uber rare and never documented before.
Does member MichaellM912 has it?

So:
-We all agree of the info but cant show period proof. We only relate what other list but nobody (me included) can show where those unique 911 colors for late 64 and early 1965 cars are listed in the first place ?
Color plates w 64xx, as Dave said, are the only indicator whatsoever.

-Did the factory tell dealers "for clients wanting to choose the color of their new 911 , just use the 356C color chart, instead." ?
Therefore, they showed clients no new color chart but handed them over an old 356C one?

Would love to see otherwise that 901/911 document, maybe it does exists but imho never shown anywhere neither published or listed in any book or site.

The use of the 356 color chart would explain why on my original invoice of the 1965 911, champagne yellow is described as special color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 911T1971

Thx, interesting discussion.

I know most above and as many know, i pretty much own all literature and color charts ever produced.
I also own one of the earlist pricelist (RoW: 1/65 and also US: 12/64) ever produced but those lists do not list specific color code available. And of course I have Johnsons book as well and dozens of other books, including Millers literature book.
I also checked the 912registry..but where are the period sources they refer too ?

Paint plates of original cars are a good indicator, i agree.
And I agree with Milou, the 64/65 colors are similar to the paints for 356C models.
The earlist Colorchart specificially for 911/912 ever issued is probably from May 1965 and which I have.

But so far nobody has proof with a period document showing that both the 901', the 232 in 64 produced 911' as well as all 911 produced up to May 1965 had a color choice similar to the outgoing Porsche 356C model.
I would love to see it because uber rare and never documented before.
Does member MichaellM912 has it?

So:
-We all agree of the info but cant show period proof. We only relate what other list but nobody (me included) can show where those unique 911 colors for late 64 and early 1965 cars are listed in the first place ?
Color plates w 64xx, as Dave said, are the only indicator whatsoever.

-Did the factory tell dealers "for clients wanting to choose the color of their new 911 , just use the 356C color chart, instead." ?
Therefore, they showed clients no new color chart but handed them over an old 356C one?

Would love to see otherwise that 901/911 document, maybe it does exists but imho never shown anywhere neither published or listed in any book or site.

---

Did you see the Auto-Foreign price list for very early grey market 911s and 912s? It has exactly the colors of the 356C color chart Miliou just posted, including grey and green interiors.

The first attempt only put up a link, here's another try:

Attachment 414631

I guess this was Eric Linden's [soterik's] father.

perfect Jim.
What is special that it lists both 911 and 912.

Is there a Color Chart for those 911 colors ?
Or, they just gave out 356C ones ??

Here would be the later 1965 Color Chart, still valid for 911 and 912.
Dated 5.65, listing both 911 and 912.
Either for MY 65 or then for MY 66.
https://s22.postimg.org/osfeydw41/Full_Size_Render.jpg
https://s21.postimg.org/dje9e6hg7/Fu...e_Render_2.jpg

US importer sheet, dated "1965", listing both 911 and 912. Note the "Exterior Colors".
https://s11.postimg.org/iawodsfw3/IMG_7934.jpg

Probably first pricelist ever (?) for both 911 and 912, dated 4.65
The 912 was introduced in Spring 1965.
https://s23.postimg.org/vy6iv954r/IMG_7935.jpg

Probably first US pricelist ever (?), for 911 only, paper is dated in 12.64/printed probably January 1965.
Note it says "Temporary" Accessory List.
It lists the prices for "Standard, Special Colors" and "Special Colors not stated in our list".
https://s8.postimg.org/bhbm3jgmt/IMG_7930.jpg
https://s22.postimg.org/kpssxpzzl/IMG_7931.jpg
https://s7.postimg.org/pr5z5y8dn/IMG_7932.jpg

My humble opinion is that the 356C color chart was used for the 911 & 912. The number of cars to be built was small, and there was no pressing need to add or change colors at the time. Porsche was already thinking ahead to the 1966 model year, and told the dealers to consider the early 911 & 912 as an early introduction to the 1966 model year.
The only "error" that I see in the Auto Foreign price list is the interior codes; the C brown, D beige, F blue, G green & K fawn are the codes used on the 1965 Kardex for 911 & 912; I guess that these did not carry over from the 356C.

Thx Dave, makes sense. But i also need to say that even the factory had a few bugs to solve during the introduction, in their papers they always made shure the 901/911 was not a 356C. Maybe the only hint were pricelists and dealer circular papers, maybe there also exists a specific color chart or upholstery set for 1965 901/911.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davep

I also know of 6420 & 6421

---

Don't leave us hanging. What colors are 6420 & 6421?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Milou

The use of the 356 color chart would explain why on my original invoice of the 1965 911, champagne yellow is described as special color.

---

I have 2 356C color charts. Interesting differences between the 2 charts. Champagne Yellow is a standard color in YM 1964 and a "Special Color" in 65YM., This should add to the confusion.......

Ciao

Jim

The 6420&6421 was discussed in the 356registry
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/...7f87e&start=15

On the contrary Jim, I think it confirms that Porsche used the September 1964 356 color brochure (and not the Nov 1963 edition) for the 911 until the 1966 model year.

I would think an internal memo from the factory to the dealerships explaining the color choice of the new 911 must be out there somewhere...

The existence of the two color brochures with same cover illustration could explain the confusion in the existing literature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by haul

The 6420&6421 was discussed in the 356registry
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/...7f87e&start=15

---

That's interesting, but at best it's a theory about what 6420 is based upon 6220 being "[police car] Porcelain White" But many 64xx colors changed with the 66xx color codes. So, 6420 could be Porcelain White or it could be something else.

6401	Slate Gray	6601	Slate Gray
6402	Ruby Red	6602	Polo Red
6403	Sky Blue	6603	Gulf Blue (aka Golf Blue)
6404	Light Ivory	6604	Light Ivory
6405	Champagne Yellow	6605	Bahama Yellow
6406	Irish Green	6606	Irish Green
6407	Signal Red	6607	Sand Beige
		6608	Aga Blue
		6609	Black
6410	Dolphin Grey
6411	Togo Brown
6412	Bali Blue
6413	Black

And, the only knowledge of 6421 is that the car painted that color isn't around anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Milou

On the contrary Jim, I think it confirms that Porsche used the September 1964 356 color brochure (and not the Nov 1963 edition) for the 911 until the 1966 model year.

I would think an internal memo from the factory to the dealerships explaining the color choice of the new 911 must be out there somewhere...

The existence of the two color brochures with same cover illustration could explain the confusion in the existing literature.

---

This sounds reasonable.

John

I have one to add to your list. An early 65 car. Pre 1000 vin in a 1 off Paint to Sample color.
Color code in the Door. 20104 Kardex says. "Orange". It is lighter than Tangerine. Car is 100% original and in its original paint. Thanks. Tate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Breazeale

I have 2 356C color charts. Interesting differences between the 2 charts. Champagne Yellow is a standard color in YM 1964 and a "Special Color" in 65YM., This should add to the confusion.......

Ciao

Jim

---

I have a 356C color chart the same as the one with 6403 and 6405 as a standard color BUT it is dated 6.63. It is still W15 but after the "printed in Germany" it reads 50 M. 6.63

@1970srs
can we maybe see the kardex
and some pics of the colored car?

best regards

I still wonder where authors Peter Morgan, Brian Long, Johnson and Paternie all got their info in their books, stating the 64/65 build 911 shared their colors with the 356C ones.
I mean, they didnt just all saw Eric's father pricelist..

So, where they got their infos from. Paint tags w 64xx and 65xx codes?
It cant be taken from above shown 356C color charts either...since those charts dont list/include any 911 (or 912) at all, even we rightly interprete them because they share the same colors as found on 64xx/65xx paint tags.

As Thomas/Milou wrote me in a internal memo, amazing that after so many years of discussing topics, this is -yet- an unsolved one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeunElf

Don't leave us hanging. What colors are 6420 & 6421?

---

Newer posts show what was learned on the 356 Registry site; that is me contributing there also.
I believe that the 6220 & 6420 are the same color, and were used for the Police vehicles.
The 6421 I came across in some information from the Reutter body book for the 911. I was able to search for the VIN and found it mentioned by someone. The car had belonged to a friend many years ago, and was scrapped long ago. It may be possible to chase that down a bit further. Perhaps I will get the Kardex to see if it lists a color in any way. My factory contact had no information on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 911T1971

Where is period proof that in 1964 and 1965 (up to May 1965), Standard Colors differed than for the 1966 Model Years ?
And that colors for the 356C were carried over into 901/911 models ?

---

The 911 Workshop Manual, in the Body section under Paintwork, lists the 64XX color codes.

"Example: synthetic resin paint 6402"
"The two figures 64 denote the 1964 color range."
"The figures 02 denote ruby red in this color range."

My manual is a later edition, and includes color codes up through 1971, so you might see how color codes are listed in earlier or original editions.

Jon B.
Vista, CA

John B. Thx. But how were those infos transmitted to new 911 clients wanting to buy a 64 or 65 built car.?
They just said, "sorry Sir we dont print specific color charts for our new car, you need to figure out your choice from our outgoing model, the 356C'. ?

I have about all Color charts ever printed for the 911 models ever including a few Upholstery folders shown to prospective clients.
But unless they showed the clients a Workshop manual (...), clients never received a Color Chart printed for any 65 built 911? And if yes, why?
They printed several 901 and 911 brochures in 1964/65, accessory lists and pricelists but no specific Color Chart ?

We have a pricelist confirming the colors but how any client got those infos and could make a choice ?
Its imo an interesting topic because it would be a anormally in Porsche history to not provide such an item when introducing a new model.

Karim,

That is a good question, but different from your original question (which I quoted) or your question at the top of this page.
In my manual, the only difference I see between the 356C and early 911 colors is the name applied to 6403, "Sky Blue" versus "Enamel Blue".

Jon B.
Vista, CA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1970rsr

I have one to add to your list. An early 65 car. Pre 1000 vin in a 1 off Paint to Sample color.
Color code in the Door. 20104 Kardex says. "Orange". It is lighter than Tangerine. Car is 100% original and in its original paint. Thanks. Tate

---

Any chance to see a picture of this car. My 65/66 911 was originally painted 5711 (orange) and would be nice to see the difference between 5711 and your 20104.

Thanks,
Timo

Once a color was used in a particular model year it was some times chosen for a special paint on a later year car. I have seen original T5B cars in A colors. Even some Cs There were two orange colors that predate the C 64/65 era, terra cotta and orange from the special order T2 offering. Maybe one of those is the orange. I think DER WHITES website has the T2 color cards.

Paint to sample #20104. Orange. In Original paint
Attachment 415870Attachment 415870Attachment 415871

One more pic. Attachment 415872

If it's any help, here's an orange 1959 356A T2 photographed outside Willhoit's open house:

Attachment 415879

The 356A color code would have been 5711.

So I am very certain the car is not the 5711; I do have a couple of early 911 in 5711, and this was a known color, so the badge & kardex should state 5711 if that was what it was. Besides, it looks a lot like tangerine in that photo on my monitor. I would really love to see the paint badge.
It appears that the 30083x series may have all been special option colors:

300830	6206
300835	6206
300838	20104
300839	70187

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davep

So I am very certain the car is not the 5711; I do have a couple of early 911 in 5711, and this was a know color, so the badge & kardex should state 5711 if that was what it was. Besides, it looks a lot like tangerine in that photo on my monitor. I would really love to see the paint badge.
It appears that the 30083x series may have all been special option colors:

300830	6206
300835	6206
300838	20104
300839	70187

---

You may be right. "Orange" was a very rare color but there's at least one original orange 356A in Southern California. 5711 isn't "signal orange" it's more of a pumpkin color. That '59 beside Willhoit's was somewhere between signal orange and pumpkin orange. It was close enough to fool me, maybe the light affected the color reproduction.

I looked through my photos and here's a 1958 [low-bow front towel bar and "wedge" turn signals] 356A at the 356 Club's Dana Point Concours:

Attachment 415919

I'm more confident that this one's really 5711 orange.

written note from april 65..

"...Interiour and colours will be delivered according to the 356C program.."

From Charlie White's new excellent book on 911 & 912 sales literature:

On page 50 there are reproductions of 911 & 912 German sales information cards dated April 1965

It is not so easy to read the colours, but there are 8 standard colours 64xx and 4 special order colours... in another column, there is a list of 8 standard colours...

If anyone has an original of these cards, perhaps they could post a clearer picture?

Maybe that would help!

To finalize and solve the issue:
Last week I had the very lucky chance to acquire a very early 911 quotation dated december 64.
In these printed papers the color coding is listed and clearly refers to the #23 by Jim shown

356C M20 9.64 color chart - as this correlates with the previously mentioned prints and flyers -
became the official order list up to the 5/65 known list.
all 901/911/912, and of course 356C up to April 65 were ordered by this very one list:

- - - -

Following standard finishes are available:
(without extra charge) Ruby Red, Signal Red, Bali Blue, Light Ivory, Slate Grey, Dolphin Grey, Irish green
(at extra charge) Emaille Blue/Sky Blue, Togo Brown, Champagne Yellow, Black

- - -

the lists

50M 6.63
40M 11.63
30M 5.64

are solely for the 356C and not for 901/911/912

br

haul

email Blau available in December 1964. I always knew Porsche were ahead of the technological game, even back in the day!

With in the above mentioned early quotation there had been also a very interesting apendix:
a very early description for the 912!

The absolutely stunning and new sentence had been the following:

"Sicherheitsgepolstertes Armaturenbrett - Armaturenbrett-Oberteil incl. Türabschlußleisten in Kunstleder schwarz überzogen -
untere Leiste der Schalttafel in Wagenfarbe lackiert,
Transistordrehzahlmesser mit eingebauter Bink- und Fernlichtkontrolle"

"Safety-padded dashboard - black plated dash top including door top rails in leatherette -
bottom bar of the control panel painted in car color,
transistor tachometer with built in turnsignal and distance light control"

This is an very official description to the planning of painted dash cars, even before the car officially went into production.


Furtheron:

Innenaustattung:
Lieferbar in 6 verschiedenen Farben analog dem Farbmuster Typ 356 C, Sitze serienmäßig in Kunstleder oder Kunstleder/Cordsamt kombiniert, Ledersitze gegen Aufpreis

Teppich: Für sämtliche Innenausstattungen Boucle schwarz

Bodenbelag: Gummimatten vor den Vorder- und Hecksitzen

Lackierung: Analog Typ 911 und 356 C

Interiour:
Available in 6 different colors analogous to the color sample type 356 C, Seats as standard in imitation leather or imitation leather / corduroy combined, leather seats against surcharge"

Carpet: For all interior fittings Boucle black

Flooring: Rubber mats for front and rear seats

Paint: Analogue Type 911 and 356 C

And found earliest proof..

Christophorus 53 / sept 64

Attachment 450326


Attachment 450327

Attachment 450324

Attachment 450325

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haul

To finalize and solve the issue:
...

- - - -

Following standard finishes are available:
(without extra charge) Ruby Red, Signal Red, Bali Blue, Light Ivory, Slate Grey, Dolphin Grey, Irish green
(at extra charge) Emaille Blue/Sky Blue, Togo Brown, Champagne Yellow, Black

- - -

---

and what about silver? 300188 and 300250 came in silver

@Franz

silver metallic 6206, porsche color coding
silver Metallic 608, reuter color coding

The only possibility is as following:
"9403 Sonderlackierung ausserhalb des Farbmusterbuches - special paint not stated in the color list" - - - - usd 100.-
"9400 Sonderlackierung laut Farbmusterbuch - special paint according to color list" - - - - usd 50.- or 55.-


what is listed in the kardex?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by haul

@Franz

silver metallic 6206, porsche color coding
silver Metallic 608, reuter color coding

The only possibility is as following:
"9403 Sonderlackierung ausserhalb des Farbmusterbuches - special paint not stated in the color list" - - - - usd 100.-
"9400 Sonderlackierung laut Farbmusterbuch - special paint according to color list" - - - - usd 50.- or 55.-


what is listed in the kardex?

---

kardex says 6206
paint tag 6?06 2nd number is not clearly readable could be 0,2,3,6 or 8

To bring this thread up again.

Today I had the lucky chance to find and buy a color chart, i did not know it existed.

According to Karim´s find in the Christophorus #53 / Sept 64 with the color change announcement for September 64, the

20M 9.64 356C color chart

- shown by Jim@#23 - seemed to be the list for ordering the 64/65 built 901/911/912/356 up to the 5.65 known list with the 66** color codings.

Today I found

15M 11.64 356C color chart

No differences in the two lists.

br
haul



btw:

All publications, print, online, whatever, world-wide, which do list 6412 BALI BLUE as a special color and 6405 CHAMPAGNE YELLOW as a standard color are definitely wrong

Yes the 6405 Champagne yellow as a standard colour and 6412 Bali Blue as a special colour was on the 6.63 paint chart. It appears that got swapped around for the 64 one Someone must have ben lazy or did not have the full infotrmation and carried the 63 one over to the 64 year in a book somewhere and i guess all the others used that as their source rather than going back to original documents. That is why the book that Karim is doing will be so valuable for those who worry about such things.

FWIW, according to the Kardex, the original owner of #300838 the special order orange paint to sample 65 was Bennett Dorrance whose grandfather started Campbell Soup. Today Bennett owns 15% of Campbell Soup and is worth $2.4 billion. I guess that explains how he was able to buy such a highly optioned 911 when he was 19.

Correct Chris. I owned that car and just recently Sold it back to Bennett! He originally ordered the car when he was a college student. He is now fully restoring his old Porsche that he ordered new. Was super excited to get it back In his hands. It was extremely original. Never messed with. Thanks. T

I have #302262 which is an early sunroof car painted silver metallic. It was delivered in Dusseldorf and the build date is listed as September 10 65. Based on some of the features of the car I believe it was completed prior to the summer break and then held back and painted with several other paint to sample silver metallic cars when they returned from break. If you have more pictures of Bennett's orange car it would be helpful to see what a similar Euro delivery car looked like. Thanks.

Chris

Chris, unless they desperately needed a particular car in a special color, the usual practise would be to weld up the body, then paint, then trim, then Reutter would send the trimmed body to Porsche for drive train installation. 302262 is one of a group of perhaps 15 cars painted in special colors. I believe they bunched special colors since they required a lot of extra effort, especially in cleaning up for a color change in the paint shop.

I'll stick with the '64 printed material.

John

update

last week I found a 9.64 color chart and hoped for the already above mentioned M20 edition.
On arrival today i was absolutely irritated, as the coding for the chart is

3M 9.64

It took me some while to realize, that the chart has additional printings in Italian
f.i. „colori speciali con sovrapprezzo L 33.000“ - special paint with surcharge italian Lira 33.000.-

Are any further different country specific color charts known?

Hello all

Reviving this informative old thread to ask if anyone knows if there was a distinction between the colors painted on the 'painted dash' early 1965 912 vs later 1965 cars? My instinct tells me the answer is no, the color was by year and the shift from painted to non painted dash was not viewed as a model change. Can anyone comment?

And...
If anyone wants to share a pretty picture of Enamel Blue / Sky Blue / Emailblau, please do! There are limited photos online, compared to almost every other 911/912 color.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by r-mm

Hello all

Reviving this informative old thread to ask if anyone knows if there was a distinction between the colors painted on the 'painted dash' early 1965 912 vs later 1965 cars? My instinct tells me the answer is no, the color was by year and the shift from painted to non painted dash was not viewed as a model change. Can anyone comment?

And...
If anyone wants to share a pretty picture of Enamel Blue / Sky Blue / Emailblau, please do! There are limited photos online, compared to almost every other 911/912 color.

---

There is a picture of a Sky Blue 356B T6 at Rennbow. It's also on Flickr.

The Rennbow text says Sky Blue was used in '64 and '65 so it's conceivable this 356B was misidentified. It also looks a bit lighter than the Sky Blue in the color chart you can download from Porsche Classic.

Some friends had a Sky Blue 356C cabriolet which I also recall as being a little darker than the 356B on Rennbow.

These are the photos I've found online that I believe to capture the range of Enamel Blue. I also posted the formula I found on Glassurit which is the same for 6403 and 314

The first two photos look like overcast days and the later two sunny. The color changes a lot - this is familiar from my Alfa which I painted Bluette which can range from nearly navy dark blue to quite intense bluegreen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by r-mm

These are the photos I've found online that I believe to capture the range of Enamel Blue. I also posted the formula I found on Glassurit which is the same for 6403 and 314

The first two photos look like overcast days and the later two sunny. The color changes a lot - this is familiar from my Alfa which I painted Bluette which can range from nearly navy dark blue to quite intense bluegreen.

---

I recognize the second photo: it's from an early Porsche of America brochure.

Attachment 542900
Front

Attachment 542901
Back

Porsche of America brochures weren't dated like those printed in Germany but this brochure clearly shows early model year 1965 cars (including a painted-dash 912) so it's probably as good a rendition as you're likely to find.

sky blue and else early colors recipies

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by r-mm

Hello all

Reviving this informative old thread to ask if anyone knows if there was a distinction between the colors painted on the 'painted dash' early 1965 912 vs later 1965 cars? My instinct tells me the answer is no, the color was by year and the shift from painted to non painted dash was not viewed as a model change. Can anyone comment?

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there are extensive discussions over at the 912bbs concluding with the assumption, that painted dash cars had been produced up to august 65.

I tend to say all of these cars had been painted according to the 64** color chart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeunElf

The obvious source is Dr. Brett Johnson's The 911 & 912 Porsche, a Restorer's Guide to Authenticity. According to it, the exterior colors available in 1965 were:

• 6401 Slate Gray
• 6402 Ruby Red
• 6403 Sky Blue
• 6404 Light Ivory
• 6405 Champagne Yellow
• 6406 Irish Green
• 6407 Signal Red
• 6410 Dolphin Grey
• 6411 Togo Brown
• 6412 Bali Blue
• 6413 Black

My car, 301382, and Jacques 301379 are both 6405 Champagne Yellow.

Also, it's pretty clear that the first two digits of these color codes are the year this set of colors was introduced. 66xx color codes wouldn't have been used in 1965.

davep has records showing a few cars with 64xx color codes after July 1965 and a handful with 66xx color codes before July 1966.

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Hi Jim, I came across this old post. The color code on my kardex for the 300700 is attached. This does not correspond to yr list.Attachment 584383

Same in yr post 63 Haul, also there 6406 is shown as Irish Green......weird.....

seems like my 300700 kardex is the only datapoint showing that 6406 is Signal Rot

jacques,

there seems to be a typo error on your kardex.
I did check up again the color chart and all the official
prints,

6407 signal red

I ll send you the pics of the correct color chart for the 64**

I agree, 6406 is Irish green, which begs the question: Jacques, is your car actually 6406 Irish Green or 6407 Signal Red? Definitely a typo. I should have caught that back 8 years ago when I supplied that Kardex.
Dave

I've seen worse Kardexes, like for my 356A. It supposedly came with a "Blaupunkt radio typ Europa."

I have some more color information. I moved a little over a year ago and unearthed some Xerox copies Porsche Classic sent me back around 1997.

Attachment 584477

Attachment 584479

6407 = signalrot.

Jim,

thank you very much for these documents…..you made my evening..;)
is the rest also available?

this is also a very detailed description/ work agenda for the painted dash in the 902 series

best regards and a colorful week

haul

I poured the rest of my prescous Lucas Blinker Fluid into my HP All-in-One Printer Scanner and scanned the remaining sheets Porsche Classic sent me back in 1997.

Here's the single sheet I have for the 66xx paint codes.

Attachment 584498

And here are the sheets for the 68xx paint codes.

Attachment 584499

Attachment 584500

Attachment 584501

Jim,

phantastic stuff….outstanding docs..thank you

br
haul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haul

Jim,

phantastic stuff….outstanding docs..thank you

br
haul

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I must have written a very, very nice letter to Porsche Classic, but I don't recall it.

no sweat Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davep

I agree, 6406 is Irish green, which begs the question: Jacques, is your car actually 6406 Irish Green or 6407 Signal Red? Definitely a typo. I should have caught that back 8 years ago when I supplied that Kardex.
Dave

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it is what it is, including typo, all original ;-)

300949 Also has blue leatherette:

https://www.europeancollectibles.com...sche-911-coupe

I have read this whole thread and there is next to nothing about Golf Blue on ‘65 911’s. I have seen a few 912’s with it.
I have a ‘65 with a Fawn interior and am interested to know who has ever seen something like it or another unique combination. My color number is 51898. Everything is listed on the Kardex very clearly.
I have to think there were more than just 1 made that way but I don’t even see Golf Blue on any 65’s.

I would really appreciate all feedback on this.

Thanks
Dave

Dave,

I think we would happily have a look at your kardex…

br

haul

Dave I thought Golf Blue was a 1966 MY color - 6603
I have a lot of golfblau 66 MY cars on my database - the earliest being 302136, a RHD one, with a Kardex date of 17 September 1965

6403 in 64 and 65 was emailleblau

Here is my Kardex. Thanks for looking.

Attachment 619212

Dave
I think that this is a great example of the fact that nothing about these car is ever for certain and there can and are outliers to the perceived facts

It is quite possible that this color was being tested during the latter half of the 65MY and anyway there are always exceptions to be found (including errors on Kardexes) However with both the numbes and the words on the kardex I think that you probably have the first car painted in Golfblau (unless it was offered as a special color for 356's)

Just to show that there are similar events here is another 65 MY car with a 66 MY paint also coincidentally (or maybe not) a blue
Attachment 619213

This one completed early June 1965 is shown as 6608 Agablau on the kardex

Does this add to the debate?Attachment 619215

Dave,
Hugh,

the paint chart W25, listing the 66** colors has a print date of 5.65.
The previous mentioned 64** color codes had been valid up to this 5.65 release.
There had been for sure early internal notes to the sales stuff and dealers in which these „new colors“ had been announced.
I expect quite some more overlapping 66** codes cars having still the 64/65 MY characteristics, being delivered prior to the MY change.

Nevertheless the Lesonal internal color code for the Golf Blue is already posted in #72.

So for me it is a standard order in standard available configuration.
But i t has to be acknowledged - a very early appearance of Golf Blau, a direct placed order from Sonauto, to have it maybe for the showroom, with european gauges, and for the winter ski enthusiasts, equipped with the ski rack.

a very nice combination, definitely

enjoy
br
haul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Martin skeetDoes this add to the debate?[ATTACH=CONFIG

619215[/ATTACH]

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Martin,

we have this doc from Eric Lindens father already discussed very early on.

Thank you to everyone for chiming in. I appreciate it. Does anyone have the data to see how many of the first 15-1600 cars were ordered with Golf Blue? Any with a Fawn interior? From HughH’s perspective, there may be only a handful or less?
I am always drawn to the unique and I was unaware of any of this when I first bought it. I kept trying to buy it for two years before I finally got it. I feel like I’ve had a little good luck here. The post from #72 tells me that it was not an official color at the time my car was ordered. Thus the Lesonal number was used. The brochure was printed 5.65 and the car was delivered that same month.
Good stuff and thanks again. Keep it coming.