Mystery 911 S ?

I purchased a car that was stolen and recovered from the 70's... It was issued a NYS vin number but everything that was original to the vin is missing! I do mean everything. Engine numbers, trans, all the normal vin number plates and even the production number behind the dash pad.

BUT... I did find a perfectly clear production number under the dash pad! 1002937... (sorry for the upside down pics, posting off the phone). Now the question, how do I find a vin to match my production number?

I contacted COA but they weren't much help... Back in the good old days they'd offer some serious info :) Where do I go from here?

I think the car was originally Albert Blue? (currently black)

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated! At this point, seems like a great driver and I'm excited to get it on the road again. It has been stored since the early 90's! It would be a blast to find the original build info for this car. I think it's hiding more than I know!

Options:
Sport Seats
Oil lines through the body
S bumpers
911/2 engine stamp (missing all other numbers)
6" fuchs
front mount oil cooler
higher RPM tach

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-Mystery/page2
See post #13.

According to the production #, this is the 2937th 1970 911 coupe produced.

Pretty neat detective work!

Thanks 928cs for that info. I'm hoping to figure out the vin number that is associated with this production number. I've come up short with COA :/ DaveP has given me a in-between and that's very helpful but I'm hoping I can get an exact based off the production numbers. It has some exciting options and I'd love to know if it was ordered this way or just outfitted afterwards.

Is that Albert Blue on the dash?? Looks a touch Purple?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genevaforeign

Thanks 928cs for that info. I'm hoping to figure out the vin number that is associated with this production number. I've come up short with COA :/ DaveP has given me a in-between and that's very helpful but I'm hoping I can get an exact based off the production numbers. It has some exciting options and I'd love to know if it was ordered this way or just outfitted afterwards.

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Indeed, you would have to start with range of values for the combinations VIN-production number for the three series available for the 1970 MY: T, E and S, and then narrow them as much as possible around your production number.


911 T Coupé 911 010 0001-100???? 911 010 2418-100????
911 E Coupé 911 020 0001-100???? 911 020 1304-100????
911 S Coupé 911 030 0001-100???? 911 030 1744-100????

Looks like Albert Blue to me

1003017 is vin 9110200646 if this is of any help

VIN = 9110301153
Eng# = ?
Trans# = ?
Prod# = 1002937


OG sound-pad?




................................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genevaforeign

. . . purchased a car that was stolen and recovered from the 70's... It was issued a NYS vin number but everything that was original to the vin is missing! I do mean everything. Engine numbers, trans, all the normal vin number plates and even the production number behind the dash pad . . .

. . . Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated! At this point, seems like a great driver and I'm excited to get it on the road again. It has been stored since the early 90's! It would be a blast to find the original build info for this car . . .

---

May not look all-that promising --- but I think you have the most important bit . . .

. . . the production number

Here's what I did . . .
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...l=1#post624807


My suggestion is to contact the Archives at the Porsche Museum . . . tell them everything that you know about your car --- + be sure to include all the documentation that shows you're the owner . . .


. . . then ask for their help

Can't hurt . . .



. . . + good luck


HtH!




.................

I've just got word that it is possible for me to get the VIN, but at double the usual cost of a Kardex.

Great information and I'm very appreciative! Thanks guys.

Success! VIN obtained.

Well done.
So, which model is it?

a 1970 911S. Close to the 911S VIN that I had with a close production number. That made the search easier I'd expect.

Updates!
DaveP was super helpful and was able to obtain info regarding the vin based off the production number... But, it comes back to a white car with basic options. Some more notes about this car. It has a factory sport exhaust, Recaro sport seats with tilting brackets, and I believe it to be Albert Blue. I've been all around this car and there is not a sign of white anywhere. Some suggest maybe a factory repaint? I have researched every vin before and after what is suspected and included engine / trans numbers when available. What is weird, this engine is way out of sequence compared to the others. Maybe because it was held for paint? I posted my collected info in the 911 vin reference thread. Anyone with thoughts, input, speculations? I'm all ears :)

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-Thread/page28

Attachment 512231Attachment 512231Attachment 512232Attachment 512233Attachment 512234

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genevaforeign

Updates!
DaveP was super helpful and was able to obtain info regarding the vin based off the production number... But, it comes back to a white car with basic options. Some more notes about this car. It has a factory sport exhaust, Recaro sport seats with tilting brackets, and I believe it to be Albert Blue. I've been all around this car and there is not a sign of white anywhere. Some suggest maybe a factory repaint? I have researched every vin before and after what is suspected and included engine / trans numbers when available. What is weird, this engine is way out of sequence compared to the others. Maybe because it was held for paint? I posted my collected info in the 911 vin reference thread. Anyone with thoughts, input, speculations? I'm all ears :)

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-Thread/page28

Attachment 512231Attachment 512231Attachment 512232Attachment 512233Attachment 512234

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VIN Reference 9110301153

The color looks to be Albert blue. Not sure why the color variation. Coa's have been know to have errors..lol

„Comfort Equipment“ listed on above CoAc is an option for 2.2T only but not for any 2.2S, because any 2.2S has this (S-bumpers, Gold lettering, S-carpet, Oil temp instrument, Chrome door sill plate, Chrome rocker plate ) as standard.

And yep, CoA have faults..i would call them and insist that „Comfort Equipment“ is not available for a 1970 911S and they provide a wrong info.
While saying this, tell them its Albert Blue and cannot be Ivory.


Btw those cocomats look period and could be factory/dealer supplied, keep them or do not throw away. The carpet might be of later make and door lock on B-pillar is usually chrome, looks painted black, as the front vent grills.
Gear knob and steering wheel probably period and great Recaro seats with the correct, perforated bolsters.

comfort equipment would also include 14" alloy wheels, the idea being softer ride.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bob joyce

comfort equipment would also include 14" alloy wheels, the idea being softer ride.....

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In fact no, wheels were not included.
Here is 1970 (Comfort was renamed as Appereance Group)...Rubber Bumperettes and Leather Steering Wheel on the package too..available for 911T. Any 2.2 911S all had this standard.
Attachment 512299


Re wheels, 14‘ Fuchs were an option for 911T, 15‘ Fuchs an option for 911T or 911E.
911S had 15‘ standard.
Attachment 512300

Would the consensus be that this COA is way off? Not that it really means too much but from my research, the engine reported to be in this car is about 175 out of sequence. I'm told there could be many reasons for this like a color change, etc.

Engine number can indeed be way off.

My guess is the COA is in at least two points wrong:
-Color info is wrong.
-Comfort Equipment is wrong.

Lets see...tell them and ask why they say Comfort Equipment as „Optional Equipment „ for an S, when it came standard for an S. It wasnt even an option for a 911S but, for a 911T only.
You will know it better than them..

So, nothing back from COA regarding my inquiry about the equipment listed.

On a really cool note, I was able to speak to the previous owner. He bought the car in 1982 from a kid he went to high school with. He had it repainted in 1987 to black. It was parked in 1992 after having kids (sounds right). The story is that the car belonged to a Pilot that flew out of JFK. It was stolen from the airport. But he had no proof of it and didn't know anything regarding the re-vin. Waiting on pictures!

Long shot here, and German hand writing experts in the group? :) Am I reading the dash production number correctly? Think maybe it could be 1002237 instead of 1002937? I'm going to look at some of the production date stamps and see where they land. According to the info I got, it was a March delivery. I already have too much money invested in trying to figure this damn thing out. What's a little more in the name of preservation! :)

I really appreciate the insight from everyone! Smart SOB's in here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genevaforeign

So, nothing back from COA regarding my inquiry about the equipment listed. Long shot here, and German hand writing experts in the group? :) Am I reading the dash production number correctly? Think maybe it could be 1002237 instead of 1002937?

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Me thinks the guy dragged the crayon at the bottom of the first 9. Try 1009937.

I thought about that but I don't think they produced that many cars for 1970?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swcarroll

Me thinks the guy dragged the crayon at the bottom of the first 9. Try 1009937.

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That would have been my guess too. Who encloses the top of a two?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rower

That would have been my guess too. Who encloses the top of a two?

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I think you are on to something here! Interesting thread

1009937 ......

makes more sense than that both the color and options are so far off. Interesting to see if this production number can be traced back to a serial nr....

For me it‘s 1009937

Subscribed. Don't give up on the search.

Scott

but is 1009937 possible? That's a high build number??

If anyone is still following :) I haven't made much progress on this mystery. BUT... The car is alive and runs well :) Very fun to drive. So it's got that going for it. Here is what I've come up with in research. I'm going to yank the engine mount and see what the build date is on the motor. That might give me a little more information about where we are in the build line.

Vin Production # Engine Trans Paint Production Affiliate
911030033 6300056 7100106 Albert Blue 7/1/1969
911030040 6300078 Albert Blue 1818
9110300952 6301159 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...find-sale.html
9110300980 6301301 Light Ivory
9110301014 S/T Coupe Conda Green 2626
9110301007 S/T Coupe https://www.pbase.com/slidevalve911r...ars_9110301007
9110301014 S/T Coupe 6301386 Green https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20994/lot/146/
9110301022 6301394 Grand Prix Wh 111 Apr-70
9110301027 6301401 Metallic Red 8181 Mar-70 https://www.flat06.fr/vehicle/porsch...-s-180cv-1970/
9110301028 6301403 7107148 Black 1010 Jan-70 Salvado Roque de Pinho FACEBOOK
9110301037 Signal Orange https://www.schmitt.com/inventory/19...11s-2-2-coupe/

9110301049 6301397 Tangerine
9110301059 Green http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...rt-family.html
9110301063 http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...0-1063-anybody
9110301071 Blue https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...-UNKNOWN-57736
9110301088 6301473 8080H

9110301113 6301451 Tangerine 2323
9110301116 6301446 Burgandy 24 https://www.europeancollectibles.com...che-911s-coupe
9110301135 6301576
9110301138 S/T Coupe 614083
9110301141 6301581
9110301147 6301585 7116410 Bahia Red 1313 4/7/1970 https://deskgram.net/drivestraat/tag...54084285698355
9110301148
9110301149 http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-ST-9110301151
9110301150
9110301151 S/T Coupe 6301577 7107999 http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...-ST-9110301151
9110301152
9110301153 1002937 6301334 3/12/1970
9110301154
9110301155
9110301156
9110301165




9110301183
9110301184 6301618 710819 8181-H http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...t-numbers.html
9110301185
9110301186 1002931 Black http://wiki.pelicanparts.com/dto_gar...hicle_id=15535
9110301187
9110301188

9110301150

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car...11/1970/812522

"

built according to homologation.


Total rebuild of a 2.2 911 S de 1970 on a 911 ST


The body was inconsolated, revised and completely rebuilt in 2010 by the Niemann von Gradowski company. This happened under the supervision of me, the owner and the expert for vintage cars, Dipl.-Ing. Klaus Kukuk motor vehicle expert (Germany, Colonia).


The frame and floor assembly were stripped of paint in 2010 by Niemann von Gradowski (Germany, Salzkotten), the A-pillar, outer sills and rear "bananas" were renewed. The side members were opened, extensively cleaned of rust and, like the entire underbody, received a completely new paintwork.


The body is built according to S/T specification and the GfK body kit consisting of front fenders, hood and bumper was attached. This resulted in an extremely light coupe.
The sheet steel extensions at the rear, which were attached after homologation, were butt welded. The outer sills have been renewed. The body was completely stripped of paint on the inside and on the floor, received Mike Sanders in all cavities and then a new paint system.


The current engine was completely rebuilt in 2014 by Mr. Michael Küke (Germany, Essen) on an aluminum crankcase modified by Mr. Edgar Salewski (Belgium Eupen).
Male piston, Carillo connecting rod, small fan wheel, double igniter, two HKZ, piston pump, etc.


The almost new 2.5 liter engine has had around 4-5 hours of operation since it was built,


California. 260 (honest) hp,


The engine has a new small fan wheel and a new GRP engine cover, a new overhauled piston pump.
The oil cooler has been cleaned.
In the course of work at Küke Automobil Service in Essen, the Porsche 911 engine 2.5 L was built on an aluminum engine housing 901 in 2014,
all valve guides renewed, valve seats milled, valves ground and ground in, the cylinder heads planned, phase turned on, installation length brought, shaft shortened, cylinder heads mounted, spring preload adjusted. Repaired and maintained a camshaft box.
Camshafts polished, bearings and cams partially.
Cylinder head banks assembled with new parts.
Engine halves cleaned, fitted with new bearings, connecting rods fitted with new bearings and new screws, crankshaft inserted, groove for circlip cut into the intermediate shaft,
Oil pump dismantled, assembled, repaired.
Intermediate shaft fitted with new sprockets and oil pump.
Both engine halves glued together and tie rods mounted.
Piston protrusion and maximum ventilation determined. Cylinder studs glued in to length, axial play of the intermediate shaft adjusted.
Piston and cylinder assembled.
Chain cases mounted, chain drive assembled.
chain parallelism checked and adjusted,
2 chain tensioners repaired.
Timing set, chain case cover blasted, coated with clear varnish and all threads repaired, upper 2 valve covers blasted and painted, valve covers mounted, new candles screwed in, oil line for camshaft on the right renewed, oil cover below repaired, thread renewed, plug renewed, magnet in plug cold-glued crankshaft and flywheel balanced, individually
Ground flywheel (steel).
Miscellaneous helicoil inserts (10 pieces).
Lines NW lubrication re-glued, pressed, because of Z-distributor.


FIA car pass,
Stack's tachometer
Heigo cage


Wiring harness completely new with two ignition circuits that can be switched on or off individually in the cockpit, for checking them individually.
Undercarriage Bielstein overhauled adjusted by the company Michael Küke Essen
Transmission 901 with "Nürburgring translation"
clutch overhauled


Servicing and maintenance since 2010 company Michael Küke (Germany Essen)


The vehicle was checked for authenticity by Mr. Kukuk, together with Mr. Marc Waring (RennSportClassics Ltd. England Surrey) and Mr. Jürgen Barth with the help of magnetic resonance testing of the chassis and production number.


The car is competitive and ready to race immediately after minor updates such as the worn seats and belts.


Extensive and detailed documentation, vehicle has been in my possession since 2009."

I would look further into the NYS vin and when it was assigned to the car. Approximate date of theft is helpful if you want to research through NY DMV.

OP, I sent you a pm.

Attachment 545481

Not sure if this help with regards to your question about 1970s German hand writing, but this is how Franz wrote the number on my Feb 1970 E. you can see the 1s are the same font type, but the 9s would certainly be different.
Good luck.

I was able to research & obtain some info supporting Op’s story from post #24. I’ve tried emailing and pm’g him several times with no success. I’d rather share that info with him first and post after.

If anyone knows him, please let him know that I emailed him my cell phone number.

Thanks

Sorry, I’ve been off the radar! Got your PM and will call this morning! Thanks again. Jay

And the plot thickens... Sort of :) I am glad to post that I was able to get more information about the Mystery 911S. But with that information comes more questions! Based off the production number, I was able to confirm the vin number. And based off the engine number, I was able to confirm that the vin # was correct. Then the question about the paint... Come to find out, it was just a mistype when transferring to the COA. The car indeed is Albert Blue 18. So, it's all starting to fall into place. But now my wheels are spinning. After doing so much digging and research on this car, I have noticed some irregularities. The biggest oddity is that the engine is roughly 250 units out of sequence. Of course, not unheard of but odd. And on the factory build sheet, it was written in and not typed (I guess after 1969, every build sheet was now typed on the typewriter). I'm sure there are a dozen explanations for this but it just seems odd. The next oddity was the "Tourist Inspection". This was hard to be explained based off the information I was able to obtain. I guess that was not a common occurrence back then and seemed peculiar. Maybe the myth about the original owner being a Pilot from NYC is true and he just happened to be in Germany and wanted a Porsche?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genevaforeign

. . . Based off the production number, I was able to confirm the vin number. And based off the engine number, I was able to confirm that the vin # was correct . . .

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What is the VIN?

And what are the 'correct' engine and production numbers?



.................

When you say “build sheet” specifically what document are you referring to… are you referring to the original Fahzeug-Auftrag?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 911MRP

When you say “build sheet” specifically what document are you referring to… are you referring to the original Fahzeug-Auftrag?

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I would think it's the Kardex translation.

Yep that’s why clarifying as these are different things used for different purposes

I had basically the same problem with a 70 albert blue T that was stolen and recovered. The insurance company resold the car with the bogus number on it to a dealer who sold it to a retail customer who had it for over 35 years until he died. I eventually got the car, took the dash pad off and was able to get the id number from the production number. Production numbers and id numbers do not follow in order (Dave Pateman knows about this) in that they may paint a bunch of albert blue bodies and throw them back with production numbers in order, but when someone orders an albert blue one, they go and grab it, equip it as ordered and THEN assign an id number

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr914

I had basically the same problem with a 70 albert blue T that was stolen and recovered. The insurance company resold the car with the bogus number on it to a dealer who sold it to a retail customer who had it for over 35 years until he died. I eventually got the car, took the dash pad off and was able to get the id number from the production number. Production numbers and id numbers do not follow in order (Dave Pateman knows about this) in that they may paint a bunch of albert blue bodies and throw them back with production numbers in order, but when someone orders an albert blue one, they go and grab it, equip it as ordered and THEN assign an id number

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The process of revinning an automobile by the governing DMV where the car was recovered was not done? Or was the revin sticker or riveted ID removed after the sale? When a stolen car gets recovered even 50 years ago DMV installs (affixes) a DMV generated sticker or riveted ID with a "new" unique vin number different from the original and creates title before it's auctioned. This is the rebuilding of a stolen car's "title" ensuring transferable ownership and eliminates a future pandora's box from opening. DMV does not want 2 cars running around with the same vin number or an altered number. Think of what can happen.

Here's the curve ball in researching of an old vin number whether its the original , revinn or a bad vin number most DMV and insurance company records are purged when inactive for a period of time. For example NYS DMV purges inactive vin numbers every 5 years. So a car the was last registered in 1984 in NYS when going to register now in NYS will have no record of that vin in their in house system.

I believe a 50 years previous car theft police report is not purged in a police department.