Would a grey owners manual & euro spec oil cooler confirm that a car was imported?
Will the VIN show if it’s a US spec car? 9113310517
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Would a grey owners manual & euro spec oil cooler confirm that a car was imported?
Will the VIN show if it’s a US spec car? 9113310517
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What do the headlight switch and fog switch look like? Does it have H1's? Are the turn signal and rear brake light housing euro? Pretty easy to tell.
And gauges. Show us pics. If it's a 73 take a picture of rear bumperettes also.
External touches are definitely euro inspired. I’m just trying to confirm if it was an original euro car given the grey manual & oil cooler.
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That is not what I’d call a “euro” manual. It is a later reprint of the MY 73 English language manual presumably with print suffix .20. Literature folks will immediately know it is later reprint. Also I’d wager the photos are of lesser quality than original typically reprints having poorer contrast ie more black or white than a
full range of monochrome in its images. Reprinted in 90s and at other times too. The originals with that olive gray (some call it putty) cover and “driver’s” title were supplied in cars for U.K. & NI and other country markets that speak English like Australia, NZ, South Africa. Also Singapore , HK and Republic of Ireland, I think. As opposed to the North American version of the manual with different print suffix and word “owners” where cover was a different colour. Content is different in some sections. Broadly speaking suffix .20 were used for some ( but not all) of counties and territories English speaking markets somewhat correlating to the Commonwealth of nations that have historical links to the old British Empire. There are other versions of the 73 manual German, French, Italian each with different print suffix and language that could be called “euro” being what sometimes is referred to as “Continental Europe” to distinguish Europe excluding islands like the British Isles that are Europe but lie around the mainland.
In short: I’d suggest the book is a red herring so don’t read too much into it being in car because you have a later reprint not an original from 1972/3. It’s probably dating from 90s. The content is suitable for the many markets all around the world that speaks English … not ‘merican ;) . I sometimes see the grouping referred to as rest of world — ROW- but that isn’t always the clearest term. Rest compared to where? It’s presence might indicate the car was once owned in such a market when it got a replacement booklet but is not really evidence of where car was originally delivered. I’m sure others can help with that based on other more original features ( seatbelt warning, switch knob covers and so forth unless those got changed) plus additional places Vin got displayed in some regions. Those “chunky” rear bumpers look North American …
HtH
Steve
The heater unit shows letters, so it might be an US one. But the script on the dashboard facia is missing.
Check if you have a belt signal sign next to the switches. ROW hadn´t.
Look under the left front fender and next to the battery oin the driver side.
If there is a yellowish tank under the fender and/or a charcoal canister or a bracket or one can see that a screw had mounted next to the battery, then you probably have a US car.
The auxiliary oil cooler where fitted was a coiled pipe new for model 73 so that one photographed was added after delivery I’d assume — another red herring in euro hypothesis. Look for the features of USA car and as suggested the places where vin was displayed as duplicate on USA cars. A few countries in Europe did get some USA spec features like dash switch getting symbols ( Sweden?) but normally there are little tells like country specific exterior mirrors.With those large rear bumperettes I suspect it’s USA model 73 as there was an evolution in what used there being by required by USA regional regulations — not sure where else in world anyone would choose to add those larger protrusions to the rear?
It’s not a U.K. car despite the English / row English driver booklet as by then the targa was RHD — for that one year only before G series.
Steve
"not sure where else in world anyone would choose to add those larger protrusions to the rear?"
Steve, this rally made me laugh this morning.
All 73 Esses had the forward oil cooler but, Steve is correct. Someone replaced the original loop cooler with a later Carrera cooler. Gauges and exterior tell me NA regardless of the signal lenses. Remove one of your front lenses, odds are it doesn’t have the running light divider.
Also, the blue Cali plate is in the right range for original 73 registration. Among the items that Steve mentioned, there is also a difference in the symbology of the hazard switch button.
The front loop cooler was an option for the US in 73, even on S's $70 If I remember correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by 70SATMan
The 28 tube cooler is much better, especially for a 2.7 with A/C. The loop is not enough cooling.
That is a USA car. As Steve 911MRP said "the little tells". Altogether they are saying US. And RSTarga is also correct that the loop cooler was an option on US spec. Esses. The ROW euro continental cars were set up to drive, auxiliary coolers and 85L gas tanks standard. Also I find the loop cooler is more than adequate. But I live at 2K meters and even on the hottest days, low 90's, the car does not overheat. But then I do not have ac or a super hot climate.
Really? Have never seen a 73S without an oil cooler. Don’t recall ever seeing a COA with that option called out either. Not to say that it couldn’t have been that way but, seems weird to me that they would have ditched it as standard with the 2.4.Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTarga
Gonna have to dig out my 73 parts manual, LOL
The loop cooler wasn’t adequate for the RS? I am remembering right, the loop on the RS, yeah??
Agree that the 28 cooler is superior, even to the radiator style.
i would love to have the 28 brass cooler on my car :) harder to find and performs very well.
The coiled pipe cooler was standard in 2.7 RS and works fine in U.K. climate which is moderated by the gulf stream.Quote:
Originally Posted by 70SATMan
"Quote Originally Posted by 70SATMan View Post
Really? Have never seen a 73S without an oil cooler. Don’t recall ever seeing a COA with that option called out either. Not to say that it couldn’t have been that way but, seems weird to me that they would have ditched it as standard with the 2.4"
Hi Michael....I can confirm that the front under the fender oil-cooler was an extra option on US -73S's.....I have one and I understand it was a "cost cut" measure at the time...Luckily Tony/Marco/TLG installed a "radiator version many moons ago....works great!.../ Lars...
Yes, '73S U.S. import the front cooler was optional ... Mine came without
Yes, '73S and '73 RS's had the loop coolers.... I believe slightly different for each...
As stated before, I retrofitted through TLG, a '72 one year only (small radiator with big fittings) cooler, with later hard lines (thermostat in front of the rear tire) 33 years ago and never looked back ... ;)
cm
"Quote Originally Posted by 70SATMan View Post
Really? Have never seen a 73S without an oil cooler. Don’t recall ever seeing a COA with that option called out either. Not to say that it couldn’t have been that way but, seems weird to me that they would have ditched it as standard with the 2.4"
Hi Michael....I can confirm that the front under the fender oil-cooler was an extra option on US -73S's.....I have one and I understand it was a "cost cut" measure at the time...Luckily Tony/Marco/TLG installed a "radiator" version many moons ago....works great!.../ Lars...
Agree.
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In this probably quite rare binder I do have the the original pricing for the P+A general manager for model 73 which includes presumably once confidential internal pricing information not just recommended retail.
This is model 73 P+A document dated at beginning of 73 model year
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Curiously it shows 4 speed transmission ?
Reason not often see 73S without … I assume most 911 S buyers ticked the opton box for the coiled cooler that was standard in S in most other markets ? If saw this comment I’m sure most would’ve said
Importers specified the cars to suit country markets for example GB concessionaire price list specifically dates spec includes more equipment than German spec brochure. I have heard Italy down spec 911 to avoid taxes then people added options after delivery as more cost effective to do that in Italian tax regime of time.
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTarga
David
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According to the internal use price list I have the option (M)412 oil cooler (for US) had suggested retail price for the 911 S Targa US $265 in model year 1973. This is a US specific price list it appears to have been printed out on an old school computer line printer as used in the day.
It is an old paper document with content put on to a more practical USA letter size stationary. Provenance is proven by a hand stamp that is authentic hand applied using red ink (not a copy after stamping) showing which role the list this once was used by — PA General Manager. Corroborated by the binder shown below so a pretty reliable source. Not sure how many of those binders would’ve existed in USA with that embossed title on front. I suppose reasonably senior manager role albeit just country regional GM, not a German factory OEM senior executive role.
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Maybe you’re remembering the lower price for this option that you told your wife :)
Steve
Interesting! Thanks everyone!
My car had been optioned by the dealer. Unfortunately they did not order the cooler, I was not happy with the engine temps in Texas and high speeds in Mexico, so on a trip to Germany in 74, I went to the parts dept at the factory. I asked for everything needed to mount an oil cooler on my S. The parts manager said I should have had one and wandered off to consult.
He sold me the loop cooler, both brass lines and all hoses and the thermostat for the equivalent of $70 US, saying that is what the option price would have been. Maybe that was the factory price. He even invited me for lunch in the employee dining hall beer and all.
I still have the receipt somewhere. Very generous of him.
Best of all Lufthansa didn't mangle the tubes on the flight back to Mexico City. Later I upgraded to the 28 tube cooler as with A/C the loop was insufficient.
Nice story and that seems a decent deal David … according to the old price list even the wholesale cost for M412 on a US MY 73 Targa S was US $212! Same as other models because I assume parts you bought and shipped were same regardless of TES. Unlike some other upgrades no offset trade-in of a part normally fitted on 73 S but not T or E in that market. More than just total of all required parts of course.
Steve
Sorry to intervene your great stories David and Steve, wanted to go back to US or European delivery;)
Picture with the brass 28 cooler shows as also a metal plate below the battery box, tow hook? Never seen that on on Euro cars, only on US cars..
Cees
I’ve thought that moving the tow hook from the torsion covers to the body like that was a 73.5 thing but, obviously I’ve been a bit ‘off my game’ on the 73’s, lol. So, open to correction on that as well.:D
Brass 28 is later Carrera, as stated previously. It actually isn't that great of a cooler, but I suppose better than the loop that was stock. I had one and needed to switch because of chronic overheating on the track. They really love to suck in track rubber.
What about the HVAC/Blower unit controls. I believe they only had words in the US, whereas ROW didn't need the handholding that we did and could figure it out after five minutes of trial and error?
Rubber buffers on all of the knobs/cigarette lighter would be another big tell, as would seatbelts, and white paint in the brake lights rather than silver (correct?). Also looks like the turn signal has been replaced at some point, or did they migrate to round stalks mid-year?
You could be right Michael, 1973.5 (CIS) only, need to scroll through my pictures if all of the CIS cars (both US/CDN vs ROW) had that hook.
Cees
gauges say US model. Euro would have druck for pressure gauge and oel for the other gauge instead of oil.
I believe those were tie down hooks for shipping, Euro delivery cars wouldn't have them.
Getting a ppi by someone who knows these cars makes sense if don’t know much and asking “ matching numbers price” whatever that means. However in the meantime to try to confirm that it is a NA spec car as many suspect from the little tells on the photos as I previously suggested look to see if there are additional VINs beyond the one beside fuel tank and on aluminium
Front slam. . I don’t think any of the cars on specs for mainland Europe or the so called Rest of the world had thsoe particular extra vin if we ignore special marks for importes in france swiss etc — there were some only for North America iirc. I’m no expert on NA cars but seem to recall they had additional vin A pillar or on a self adhesive sticker on door in 73?
Yes, A pillar VIN tag was a US DOT requirement, Canada adopted a lot of those US requirements so, we typically say NA. The jamb decal that had the hole punched VIN is a DOT compliance decal. Often gone on restored US cars though reproductions can be sourced. Official Porsche replacements can be had but, believe those are black decals rather than the original silver.
I thought the hooks on the torsion bar end covers 72/73 replaced the center tow hook??Quote:
Originally Posted by edmayo
The tie down loops are welded on that car. 72-73 didn’t have torsion bar cover hooks. My Euro 73 had a single rear bolt on tie down when I got it.
My 70 doesn’t have the torsion cover hooks either so, now I’m confused.. might be confusing AC cars with the front radiator.. doesn’t make sense to me having a Euro/ROW body and a NA body..,
I can feel myself being tugged down the rabbit hole haha.